Submersion - How many?

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Duncan Edwards
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Submersion - How many?

Postby Duncan Edwards » Mon Sep 26, 2016 2:59 pm

I've always been a fan of the extended submersion in sinking scenes. Extending the struggle with post submersion bubbles or splashing adds a lot to the end for me and often, but not always, a repeated struggle back to the surface. For some of us the best struggle is trudging through thigh deep mud while for others it's about a struggle for life. Often a struggle that we know is going to end in failure anyway. I suppose this makes such finishes more like torture in reality but I'm very cool with that most of the time. So what does anyone have to say about this? How do you feel about watching the hapless victim fight back to the surface only to sink under again? How many times? What about going under and clawing their way out to safety?

Always wondering how typical my preference is.
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joedeep130535
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Re: Submersion - How many?

Postby joedeep130535 » Mon Sep 26, 2016 3:56 pm

Like D.E. I am excited by a "knee to hip" depth struggle After that any struggle is good but a complete submersion must be followed by a rapid "resurrection" As a frequent sinker I find the buoyancy point in most,soft,mud is about chest deep & a lot of the videoed struggles are in fact efforts to sink deeper Not complaining ,just pointing out that art is often more stimulating than fact lol

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Re: Submersion - How many?

Postby Fred588 » Mon Sep 26, 2016 4:32 pm

As those involved on the production side are, or should be, aware, repeated submersions present some challenges to the actress.

As was pointed out by the first reply here, the actress must work fairly hard at sinking once she is past the buoyancy point. The thicker (which also means heavier) the mud the harder she must work. If the scene is on the melodramatic side, she must then transition to working in the opposite direction if there is to be more than one submersion. Then, once she is above the surface she must go back to sinking without wiping her eyes. This latter transition can be covered by a cut to the other angle if there are two cameras but continuity is tricky. Such a cut also lets the actress catch her breath. If the scene is an erotic one the need to avoid wiping the eyes is not so important.

The work to submerge can be reduced considerably by making the mud wetter. This, however, increases the risk that mud or muddy water might get in the actress's eyes. Depending on the kind of mud that event almost certainly ends the scene but it could also end the shoot. Clay, in particular, can be very irritating if it gets in the eye and wetter clay is a LOT more likely to do that.

I do agree that a melodramatic scene with two or more submergences can be pretty interesting. Its also rather risky.

On the topic of extending the apparent submergence by the use of bubbles injected through a pipe or hose, I think that can be effective. I think the first time that was done was here at Studio 588 although by a different producer, and I have done it many times since. I think, however, it is even MORE effective when the actress herself can produce the bubbles. That requires very good cardiovascular fitness (not to mention presence of mind - ok, I mentioned it) and is a STRONG point in favor of actresses who do not smoke.


Duncan Edwards wrote:I've always been a fan of the extended submersion in sinking scenes. Extending the struggle with post submersion bubbles or splashing adds a lot to the end for me and often, but not always, a repeated struggle back to the surface. For some of us the best struggle is trudging through thigh deep mud while for others it's about a struggle for life. Often a struggle that we know is going to end in failure anyway. I suppose this makes such finishes more like torture in reality but I'm very cool with that most of the time. So what does anyone have to say about this? How do you feel about watching the hapless victim fight back to the surface only to sink under again? How many times? What about going under and clawing their way out to safety?

Always wondering how typical my preference is.
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H8ms2014
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Re: Submersion - How many?

Postby H8ms2014 » Mon Sep 26, 2016 4:54 pm

I love struggling, from knee to full submergence. But I really love the last gasp escape from the sucking mire, only to get sucked back under with the quaking bog burping and the victims struggles and bubbles :twisted: :twisted:

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PM2K
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Re: Submersion - How many?

Postby PM2K » Mon Sep 26, 2016 5:07 pm

H8ms2014 wrote:I love struggling, from knee to full submergence. But I really love the last gasp escape from the sucking mire, only to get sucked back under with the quaking bog burping and the victims struggles and bubbles :twisted: :twisted:


You've read my mind.... :twisted:

Best would be the old vine or branch escape, which fails due to breakage or someone cutting the lifeline. When this is done well, it makes any scene an A + ....

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Re: Submersion - How many?

Postby Mynock » Mon Sep 26, 2016 5:50 pm

A drawn out submergence with the mud slowly closing over the victim's face is what really makes a scene for me. Muffled bubbling screams/moans as it covers her mouth are a nice touch too. Add to this a final shot of bubbles and a quaking surface that then becomes still and voila, perfect scene.

The "last gasp" re-emergance can be awesome if done right, but it shouldn't involve more than the face and hands getting back above the surface. If you were just slowly sucked under thick mud then you shouldn't be able to thrust half your upper body back out with a last desperate push.

On the flip side nothing annoys me more than watching a good, slow, struggling sink that's followed by a sudden ducking under of the head.
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Re: Submersion - How many?

Postby Chimerix » Mon Sep 26, 2016 8:05 pm

After a long, slow, ankle-to-under sink, nothing's better than a long, slow, drawn-out submergence. Fighting for breath around mouthfuls of quicksand, struggling to get one more breath... yummy! ANd if that involves breaking the surface one or a dozen times, as long as it's believable and not a "Pop! Goes the weasle" reappearance, I love it!

So far, I think that Boggy Man has the best example of that struggle in his "Run from Bear into Quicksand" clip.
The difference between theory and reality is that, in theory, there is no difference between theory and reality.

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Chimerix
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Re: Submersion - How many?

Postby Chimerix » Mon Sep 26, 2016 8:26 pm

Mynock wrote:On the flip side nothing annoys me more than watching a good, slow, struggling sink that's followed by a sudden ducking under of the head.


AMEN!
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Re: Submersion - How many?

Postby Boggy Man » Tue Sep 27, 2016 8:25 am

Chimerix wrote:After a long, slow, ankle-to-under sink, nothing's better than a long, slow, drawn-out submergence. Fighting for breath around mouthfuls of quicksand, struggling to get one more breath... yummy! ANd if that involves breaking the surface one or a dozen times, as long as it's believable and not a "Pop! Goes the weasle" reappearance, I love it!

So far, I think that Boggy Man has the best example of that struggle in his "Run from Bear into Quicksand" clip.


Here is my posting with the link to the video, quite a fun struggle: 8-)

http://www.quicksandfans.com/bb/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=2588&start=156
I sink, therefore I WAM!!!!

(((ioi)))

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PM2K
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Re: Submersion - How many?

Postby PM2K » Tue Sep 27, 2016 4:31 pm

Boggy Man wrote:
Chimerix wrote:After a long, slow, ankle-to-under sink, nothing's better than a long, slow, drawn-out submergence. Fighting for breath around mouthfuls of quicksand, struggling to get one more breath... yummy! ANd if that involves breaking the surface one or a dozen times, as long as it's believable and not a "Pop! Goes the weasle" reappearance, I love it!

So far, I think that Boggy Man has the best example of that struggle in his "Run from Bear into Quicksand" clip.


Here is my posting with the link to the video, quite a fun struggle: 8-)

http://www.quicksandfans.com/bb/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=2588&start=156



Damn! I forgot how much I love your videos. This is a classic. :D


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