Long Hair and Quicksand

[Skyrook92]

Hey everyone,

I've always been a fan of girls with long, smooth hair, and lately, I've been craving to see a certain moment in a quicksand scene that capitalizes on it. Here's an example:

When the girl is about shoulder or neck deep, her hair begins to spread out behind her on the surface of the quicksand, going outward. None of it goes under yet. Then, she continues to sink and submerges, with her hair still floating on the surface. As she continues descending underneath the mud, it all slowly spirals back into the center, where her face just submerged, like a little whirlpool of hair. It keeps the sink going just a little longer. You know that she is still just below the surface, still in arm's reach, until the quicksand slurps down the last tips of her hair. Then the bubbles come up.

I wrote a couple submergences like this into my last story, and I know it may be a rare kink, but what do you all think? Is this something people are interested in seeing in a scene?

[Fred588]

There are certainly several video scenes in which the character's hair follows her down. However, for very long hair to be "spread out" around her and then follow her down is a near impossibility in video unless it was carefully scripted. The principle problem is that unless the character were to run into the qs and plunge in to her head wth her hair trailing from air resistance I cannot see how the hair would end up spread out on the surface. If she sinks in a vertical position, as soon as the end of a strand touches the mud it will become muddy and stay right where it is.

Also, for long hair to trail down into the mud following the character would require the actress to sink rather deep, so as to pull it all down. It could certainly be done using a wig (with no actress attached) after a submergence but splicing together the live action and contrived action would be somewhat problematic.

[PM2K]

I love that happening with the hair! In fiction and artwork, it really is a plus for me, as a capstone to the victim's final descent. Practically, though, as Fred points out, it is a hard thing to do in real life.

I'm a big fan of the idea, though.

[Skyrook92]

I understand the difficulty of doing a scene like this from a production standpoint. I figured I'd just put out some feelers and see if this is something anybody else would be interested in seeing. If enough people want to see it, then maybe it's worth trying out.

I live in LA and work in TV post-production, and I've often thought about how a Hollywood crew would dive into a quicksand scene like this. Here's what I've come up with:

Suppose she's up to her stomach or chest, just before her hair begins to touch the mud. Get her to sink up to her shoulders, but only shoot her from the front, so we can't see what her hair is doing.

Cut, and come in for a boob close-up. Get the boobs going under, and cut again.

Then, you can spread her hair out on the surface by hand. It doesn't matter how it got that way. It's a melodramatic story, not a documentary.

Now it's time for the submersion. Get a scuba tank, and a pair of long rods.

Get a shot of her pushing her arms under, so that we won't see them for the rest of the scene. Now, cut and put the two rods down on either side of her. Move in for a closeup, so that the rods are just out of frame. Have her push her hands back up from under the mud, also out of frame, and use the rods to gradually push herself down. Have her sink up to her forehead and cut.

Now, get a wide angle shot from behind, or even above (you'll have to move the rods), where you can't see her face. You can use this to cut to when you sneak in the scuba tank.

Go back to the front angle and put the suba tank in the mud, and have the actress start breathing through it. Clean her face off and do the submergence again. You can cut to this shot once the scuba mouthpiece is under the mud. Now, have her push herself all the way down, using the rods, until all of the hair on the surface is under. You can have a crewmember off screen tap her hands to let her know when she has reached the right depth.

What do you think? Is it possible? Or am I being an armchair director?

[Fred588]

Please understand the following is my opinion only, albeit fromone who has directed more than 1000 quicksand scenes and assisted in about 300 more. Most of what you suggest is probably practical if you assume resources about a dozen times what is normally available with respect to time and crew. If it was critical to get the scene as you have described it might be possible. The SCUBA tank would create issues, however. First, it would tend to want to float and might get in the way. Second, you'd have to find a way to deal with the bubbles a SCUBA regulator would release. Some sort of extended-length, double-hose regulator might work if they still make double-hose regulators. Another issue is that the pits all the producers here use are not deep enough unless the actress were to lie back (or forward) as she goes down.

I woould do it, more or less, as you have described up to the point of spreading her hair on the surface. For that, I would substitute a wig (or perhaps a second wig to match one used for the earlier parts). It would be bobby-pinned to her natural hair so the head end of the wig would go down with her. Then I would have the actress leave the pit while I filmed the wig being pulled down using a rope attached to a weighted pulley on the bottom., or something equivalent.

To answer your last question I would say yes you are beeing an armchair director. You are thinking things through fairly well but without the benefit of actual experience. If you want to get that experience the best way is to crew for an actual producer. That is easy enough to arrange. Since you work in production I suspect you have learned much of what you do know that way.

I understand the difficulty of doing a scene like this from a production standpoint. I figured I'd just put out some feelers and see if this is something anybody else would be interested in seeing. If enough people want to see it, then maybe it's worth trying out.

I live in LA and work in TV post-production, and I've often thought about how a Hollywood crew would dive into a quicksand scene like this. Here's what I've come up with:

Suppose she's up to her stomach or chest, just before her hair begins to touch the mud. Get her to sink up to her shoulders, but only shoot her from the front, so we can't see what her hair is doing.

Cut, and come in for a boob close-up. Get the boobs going under, and cut again.

Then, you can spread her hair out on the surface by hand. It doesn't matter how it got that way. It's a melodramatic story, not a documentary.

Now it's time for the submersion. Get a scuba tank, and a pair of long rods.

Get a shot of her pushing her arms under, so that we won't see them for the rest of the scene. Now, cut and put the two rods down on either side of her. Move in for a closeup, so that the rods are just out of frame. Have her push her hands back up from under the mud, also out of frame, and use the rods to gradually push herself down. Have her sink up to her forehead and cut.

Now, get a wide angle shot from behind, or even above (you'll have to move the rods), where you can't see her face. You can use this to cut to when you sneak in the scuba tank.

Go back to the front angle and put the suba tank in the mud, and have the actress start breathing through it. Clean her face off and do the submergence again. You can cut to this shot once the scuba mouthpiece is under the mud. Now, have her push herself all the way down, using the rods, until all of the hair on the surface is under. You can have a crewmember off screen tap her hands to let her know when she has reached the right depth.

What do you think? Is it possible? Or am I being an armchair director?

[silverfish84]

really really does do it for me aswell soft thick long silky hair bouncing on the surface is also such a turn on then watching it go under slowly like a flower petal closing in on itself is amazing

[Boggy Man]

This could work good in a cork pit, where submergence can be easy enough to pull the hair completely under quickly, so that the actress can easily hold her breath for that scene. To stretch out the scene, a camera set to a suitably high frame rate would be used to shoot the submergence, such that upon playback at a standard frame rate, the submergence will then be nice and slow.

[Skyrook92]

Most of what you suggest is probably practical if you assume resources about a dozen times what is normally available with respect to time and crew.

Just out of curiosity, what are your resources in terms of time and crew? How many people (besides actresses) are on the set, and what crew positions are they working? Also, how many scenes do you usually shoot per day?

As far as the scuba tank goes, just make sure the hose is under the mud, and let the tank float somewhere out of frame. Takes care of the floating and the bubbles.

At risk of sounding overly critical, I'll say this about all of the producers: I feel like close-ups are far underutilized. Most things seem to be covered from a wide or medium shot, showing the actress' entire body. While this is great for erotic or playful scenes, I always imagine dramatic scenes unfolding a little differently in my head.

I'm not saying to get rid of the wide shot completely. But I would love to see cause and effect reaction shots. A close-up of her butt sinking into the mud, a close up of her face reacting to it. Things like that, occasionally sprinkled throughout a scene, would be very cool to see.

I woould do it, more or less, as you have described up to the point of spreading her hair on the surface. For that, I would substitute a wig (or perhaps a second wig to match one used for the earlier parts). It would be bobby-pinned to her natural hair so the head end of the wig would go down with her. Then I would have the actress leave the pit while I filmed the wig being pulled down using a rope attached to a weighted pulley on the bottom., or something equivalent.

I love this idea! I would buy this video!

If you want to get that experience the best way is to crew for an actual producer. That is easy enough to arrange. Since you work in production I suspect you have learned much of what you do know that way.

I've often thought about doing this, but I still can't figure out what I would tell my family, friends, and coworkers about disappearing to The South for two weeks. Maybe I'll figure out a solution to this by next season.

[Fred588]

As often as not its either me and the actress or me and two actresses.

As for closeups, your statement suggests you have obtained very few, if any, of my videos.

Most of what you suggest is probably practical if you assume resources about a dozen times what is normally available with respect to time and crew.

Just out of curiosity, what are your resources in terms of time and crew? How many people (besides actresses) are on the set, and what crew positions are they working? Also, how many scenes do you usually shoot per day?

As far as the scuba tank goes, just make sure the hose is under the mud, and let the tank float somewhere out of frame. Takes care of the floating and the bubbles.

At risk of sounding overly critical, I'll say this about all of the producers: I feel like close-ups are far underutilized. Most things seem to be covered from a wide or medium shot, showing the actress' entire body. While this is great for erotic or playful scenes, I always imagine dramatic scenes unfolding a little differently in my head.

I'm not saying to get rid of the wide shot completely. But I would love to see cause and effect reaction shots. A close-up of her butt sinking into the mud, a close up of her face reacting to it. Things like that, occasionally sprinkled throughout a scene, would be very cool to see.

I woould do it, more or less, as you have described up to the point of spreading her hair on the surface. For that, I would substitute a wig (or perhaps a second wig to match one used for the earlier parts). It would be bobby-pinned to her natural hair so the head end of the wig would go down with her. Then I would have the actress leave the pit while I filmed the wig being pulled down using a rope attached to a weighted pulley on the bottom., or something equivalent.

I love this idea! I would buy this video!

If you want to get that experience the best way is to crew for an actual producer. That is easy enough to arrange. Since you work in production I suspect you have learned much of what you do know that way.

I've often thought about doing this, but I still can't figure out what I would tell my family, friends, and coworkers about disappearing to The South for two weeks. Maybe I'll figure out a solution to this by next season.

[Skyrook92]

You got me Fred. I've never bought anything from Studio588. But that discussion belongs in a different thread.