Memo

[Mynock]

It also helps to choose a field of study that will turn into a well paying job........alot of these kids are just going to school for the sake of going to school, they end up with a 'liberal arts' degree that cost them the price of a new house but doesn't qualify them to do anything but get into arguements on the internet.

[Fred588]

It also helps to choose a field of study that will turn into a well paying job........alot of these kids are just going to school for the sake of going to school, they end up with a 'liberal arts' degree that cost them the price of a new house but doesn't qualify them to do anything but get into arguements on the internet.

Agreed, though I recognize that one has to be reasonably satisfied with what they do for a living. My dad suggested I become a dentist, knowing they make really good pay. I chose instead to become a professor in the field now known as kinesiology. I never made over 60k in an academic year (9 months) but I had a good time and did ok. That said, you are quite right that students need to be reasonable in what they choose to study. I don't know where they get their ideas but it isn't from the university advisers. I remember well back at least two decades ago how the dialogue often went with student advisees. The first question I always asked was "What do you want to do when you get big?" I asked that because we had several tracks that would lead in different directions within the overall field. Far too often the answer was, "I want to be the head football coach in my town." When I followed up with, "Well suppose that job is filled, what is your next choice?" Far too often the answer was, "Well then I'll just work on the family ranch." These students were not being realistic and they were quite stubborn about it. As faculty we offered sound advice most of the time but it was frequently ignored, and especially so by the weaker students. I will add, however, that the above was not at the school were I spent somewhat more than the last half of my career. At that school, which had selective admissions (except for many of the athletes) the students tended to listen more to advise. We also had an extremely high rate of those who graduated who got good jobs in their chosen field.

It was also my experience that a very substantial proportion of those who went into majors that do not offer aggressive job opportunities fell into two groups. The larger group was students who were rather weak academically. They tended to transfer to the "weaker" majors after they could not make it in the harder ones. The other group was students with career objectives that require a degree but no specific degree. Law, for example. Law school is a graduate level program that requires completion of a degree for admission but the major matters little. I had a classmate in high school, for example, who chose to major in philosophy as an undergrad because it was the only major that could be completed in three years, thus gaining an extra year once he became a lawyer, as he did. Believe it or not, medicine is almost as flexible in what is required of an undergraduate, so long as it involves some strong science. In fact, I know of several TOP medical schools that admit extremely bright students right out of high school. The same for doctoral programs in pharmacy.

[Duncan Edwards]

Law, for example. Law school is a graduate level program that requires completion of a degree for admission but the major matters little.

Hence my history major at the behest of my mother. It also didn't hurt that beyond tinkering with broken stuff my strongest skills were reading, writing, and talking. It didn't take long for me to realize that although I could have been a very good one I'd sooner stick my head in a wood chipper than become an attorney. Jon Smith correctly makes a point of passion for your subject and I had none for that. I had a lot of secondary skills and genuine passion for technical things so I directed that into a job that paid well. One day an enormous blue computing entity came calling and needed someone who was "a mile wide and an inch deep" as my boss put it. Being diverse ultimately worked out very well for me. It's also a good skill set for being a quicksand producer.

[Fred588]

Its only indirectly related to the topic here but, ultimately, there are two absolutely critical skills one must have: the first is reading and the second is writing. If you can, and are willing to read you can learn anything you really want to. If you can't really read you are dead in the water with storms all around. I had a seventh grade English teacher who was the terror of the school - to the point where some parents maneuvered to get their children out of her classes. I am extremely grateful that my parents did not do so. My entire career was built, and quite successfully, on being able to write, and I learned that under Miss Baezley.

[Duncan Edwards]

Its only indirectly related to the topic here but, ultimately, there are two absolutely critical skills one must have: the first is reading and the second is writing. If you can, and are willing to read you can learn anything you really want to. If you can't really read you are dead in the water with storms all around. I had a seventh grade English teacher who was the terror of the school - to the point where some parents maneuvered to get their children out of her classes. I am extremely grateful that my parents did not do so. My entire career was built, and quite successfully, on being able to write, and I learned that under Miss Baezley.

Very similar experience with Mrs. Mitchell. I don't think they are allowed to have teachers like that any longer since students aren't permitted to fail anyway. They count the failures but not the successes.

[QuicksandMania]

Its only indirectly related to the topic here but, ultimately, there are two absolutely critical skills one must have: the first is reading and the second is writing. If you can, and are willing to read you can learn anything you really want to. If you can't really read you are dead in the water with storms all around. I had a seventh grade English teacher who was the terror of the school - to the point where some parents maneuvered to get their children out of her classes. I am extremely grateful that my parents did not do so. My entire career was built, and quite successfully, on being able to write, and I learned that under Miss Baezley.

In addition to literacy, I want to add numeracy or literacy with numbers as indispensable. Persons who cannot think quantitatively are thoroughly "sunk" and not in a good way. Here is one of my favorite quotes:

I know at this point most people have probably tuned out. They didn’t like math in school. They probably weren’t very good at math. And for the most part, people just plain don’t like math. To that I respond with one simple word; “Tough.” The reason I say, “tough” is not to be mean, but because there is something much more fundamental about math. Realize saying, “Well, I don’t like math,” is like saying, “Well, I don’t like gravity,” or “I don’t like the sun rising in the east,” or “I don’t like wet water.” Math is math. It’s reality. And whether you enjoy math or not doesn’t matter. Furthermore, the economic REALITY of the situation is that if you want to make a decent living, you have to learn math. There are no ifs, ands, or buts about it. Math is not optional.

Clarey, Aaron (2011-12-12). Worthless (Kindle Locations 330-338). Paric Publishing, LLC. Kindle Edition.

[Fred588]

Its only indirectly related to the topic here but, ultimately, there are two absolutely critical skills one must have: the first is reading and the second is writing. If you can, and are willing to read you can learn anything you really want to. If you can't really read you are dead in the water with storms all around. I had a seventh grade English teacher who was the terror of the school - to the point where some parents maneuvered to get their children out of her classes. I am extremely grateful that my parents did not do so. My entire career was built, and quite successfully, on being able to write, and I learned that under Miss Baezley.

In addition to literacy, I want to add numeracy or literacy with numbers as indispensable. Persons who cannot think quantitatively are thoroughly "sunk" and not in a good way. Here is one of my favorite quotes:

I know at this point most people have probably tuned out. They didn’t like math in school. They probably weren’t very good at math. And for the most part, people just plain don’t like math. To that I respond with one simple word; “Tough.” The reason I say, “tough” is not to be mean, but because there is something much more fundamental about math. Realize saying, “Well, I don’t like math,” is like saying, “Well, I don’t like gravity,” or “I don’t like the sun rising in the east,” or “I don’t like wet water.” Math is math. It’s reality. And whether you enjoy math or not doesn’t matter. Furthermore, the economic REALITY of the situation is that if you want to make a decent living, you have to learn math. There are no ifs, ands, or buts about it. Math is not optional.

Clarey, Aaron (2011-12-12). Worthless (Kindle Locations 330-338). Paric Publishing, LLC. Kindle Edition.

I do not disagree in any way, except to make a minor point that there is some credible research showing that reading is the most basic key simply because if one can read well one can potentially teach themselves the math. An example of this, albeit involving only one person, is the story of Abraham Lincoln. Lincoln had a total of about one year of very primitive education as a boy, but he did learn to read. As an adult he not only studied law but also learned most of Euclidian geometry (enough to get work as a surveyor). He did this by reading borrowed books and with a little, occasional, help from a friend. All this is really only to say that reading makes possible the self-learning of math, but math does not make possible the self-learning of reading.

[QuicksandMania]

All this is really only to say that reading makes possible the self-learning of math, but math does not make possible the self-learning of reading.

Agreed!

[Kimalainen]

What is wrong with people getting free college?

[Duncan Edwards]

What is wrong with people getting free college?

There is no such thing as "free". Somebody pays for it. The value of "free" is nothing.