Net Neutrality

[dlodoski]

Many of you are probably aware that Net Neutrality is in the news again, and not in a good way.

I admit, this topic is necessarily political, but since it involves the potential loss (or increased difficulty) of access to sites like Quicksand Fans, I think that we should discuss it, and hear from members here that may be thinking of solutions.

If you aren't sure what net neutrality is, the most important thing to know that is if you like the way the internet works right now, then, for you, it's a good thing.

The loss of Net Neutrality means that it will be possible for internet service providers to shape what sites that you have access to, adjust the speeed of which you access sites that you do have access to, and perhaps charge more for enhanced protocols that support VPN and FTP and Secure Shell etc. etc. I don't have an 'Internet' (BGP) network background, but I did spend a lot of time tinkering with access control. Traffic shaping (filtering - including protocols), site access and packet prioritization are easy things to do. And a great way to create tiered levels of service.

Just imagine having to pay more for accessing your school web site, because it is not what the provider prefers you to spend time looking at? Yea.

Anyways, this is undoubtedly going to happen.

My personal feeling is that we should all be very thankful that there is mobile data available. And that's because (at least for now) there is competition in that area. The people who have only one choice for fixed service (Cable, Fiber, DSL) and are in a poor cell coverage area are the most vulnerable.

So, anyone concerned about accessing Quicksandfans in the future? Do you have solutions in mind?

[Fred588]

One solution would be the very political one that begins with IMP.

But that's not something we can do here. I think one things that might be done would be to develop a backup plan. For example, before there were forums and groups there was onelist. That system itself went away because better technology made it obsolete but something along that line should be relatively simple to set up as it is not really much more than email.

[Green Heart]

I feel like this is something we have to fight for at least once every six months. The internet outrage needs to spill over into public outrage before this will be stopped, at least in my opinion.

At least here in Canada the CRTC, corrupt and flawed as it is, supports Net Neutrality.

[Duncan Edwards]

Tossing Net Neutrality will give the major ISPs the ability to charge for what people use. Something like QSF will fall far below the radar of throttling. Competition will keep things from changing too much too fast. Even after the decisions passes muster with the FCC it will likely face continued and protracted court challenges from heavy hitters like Facebook and Google. For most of us in the U.S. I suspect it will lead to better service for those at the lowest level and outstanding performance options for those who wish to pay. At least then we will have the choice. I'm not siding with the doomsayers on this just yet. It's going to happen and I doubt it will affect us here much if any.

Regardless of what the future holds it's most likely too late to affect things politically in the USA. Americans abdicated that responsibility long ago with their refusal to become involved in their own democracy.

[Duncan Edwards]

... before there were forums and groups there was onelist. That system itself went away because better technology made it obsolete but something along that line should be relatively simple to set up as it is not really much more than email.

You're pointing at something here that I wanted to touch on. IF the very worst of fears are realized, and i'm not expecting that at all, you will see the rise of more "adult" oriented social media platforms that use little bandwidth and target the audience much like what you propose.

[Fred588]

... before there were forums and groups there was onelist. That system itself went away because better technology made it obsolete but something along that line should be relatively simple to set up as it is not really much more than email.

You're pointing at something here that I wanted to touch on. IF the very worst of fears are realized, and i'm not expecting that at all, you will see the rise of more "adult" oriented social media platforms that use little bandwidth and target the audience much like what you propose.

Agreed, more or less. The only thing that might threaten us here would be decisions by internet service providers to block adult-oriented material. I would not be surprised if the Falwells of the world tried to press for that sort of thing but I don't think that sort of thing would be even attempted for quite a while. Also, it would take a long time, probably well past several elections and those would very likely move things in the opposite direction. If the loss of neutrality worked at the level of the hosting company, and that is, I think, very unlikely, the solution would be to shift to one in another country.

[dlodoski]

.... If the loss of neutrality worked at the level of the hosting company, and that is, I think, very unlikely, the solution would be to shift to one in another country.

It's not a censorship issue.

People writing about Net Neutrality rules talk about the 'Last Mile' principle of service providing. That term came from telephone land line issues, but it's basically the same principle. You can think of your local telephone company as your gateway to telephone service in general (they can't control service at the other end of a long distance phone call for example).

So, Net Neutrality isn't about what's on the Internet, but rather how you get to it. Thinking about mailing lists and other platforms misses the point.

[Duncan Edwards]

... before there were forums and groups there was onelist. That system itself went away because better technology made it obsolete but something along that line should be relatively simple to set up as it is not really much more than email.

You're pointing at something here that I wanted to touch on. IF the very worst of fears are realized, and i'm not expecting that at all, you will see the rise of more "adult" oriented social media platforms that use little bandwidth and target the audience much like what you propose.

Agreed, more or less. The only thing that might threaten us here would be decisions by internet service providers to block adult-oriented material. I would not be surprised if the Falwells of the world tried to press for that sort of thing but I don't think that sort of thing would be even attempted for quite a while. Also, it would take a long time, probably well past several elections and those would very likely move things in the opposite direction. If the loss of neutrality worked at the level of the hosting company, and that is, I think, very unlikely, the solution would be to shift to one in another country.

Having been raised and educated among the Moral Majority I've been waiting for years to see some of the "Falwells" achieve a single national victory over the 1st Amendment. At a time when fewer are in Church and there is more porn and objectionable content available than ever before I can't see this happening now or anytime before ISIS establishes a Caliphate in North America. Since the 80's the street preachers out there make noise for their own congregation against homosexual rights, decriminalization of marijuana, pornography, Hollywood, single parent homes, liquor on Sundays, Wine sales in grocery stores, gambling, etc and yet we have more of all those things now than ever. It's time we stop looking under the bed for this boogeyman. He ain't there.

Proponents of net neutrality are typically worried about the monopoly and pricing power held by cable companies and other ISP's. Options for access are improving all the time. Cellphone service is a fraction of the original cost and expands constantly in performance and coverage. "Free" wi-fi is all over the place. Elon Musk is going to put the equivalent of today's internet backbone in orbit by 2024 and he or his competition will achieve that. A lot of monopoly remains but those providers don't want to distort the consumer experience too much or they will lose.

[Mynock]

Proponents always gloss over the fact that it reclassifies ISP's as a "Common Carrier", which means they become a government controlled utility. With regulation will of course come the taxes, fees, and other associated costs which will be passed along to end user.

Also while the FCC already voted to regulate the internet as a Common Carrier, it's important to point out that it hasn't actually enacted any regulation based on this ruling. So no one has yet seen any benefit of this concept.

But I'm sure that if I like my Insurance oops I mean Internet Provider I can keep it right?

My ISP provides me with great service at a great price. I cannot see anything positive that will come of someone else telling them how to do business.

[Nessie]

My two cents...

The end of Net Neutrality would be great for big business, but it won't be good at all for small business. And yes, Quicksand Fans is a small business with a limited but loyal following.

Something similar has happened with Facebook over the last few years. Not by rule of law, but just by Facebook wanting to maximize profits. If you run a business, you have always been able to set up a page there and talk about what you do. It used to work great. Then they started taking paid advertising. These days, the natural, organic reach by people liking and sharing content has been clogged up by paid advertising. Now we have two tiers of service: Plenty of reach for the money, very little for those who can't pony up. Small business is furious about it, but the big companies love it. And since most non-business people love, love, love Facebook, since your brother and sister and grandma and all your friends and in-laws and second cousins are on it -- people simply won't move, so it's pretty hard on the little guys.

Based on that, we can expect roughly the same thing with the end of net neutrality: Lots of access for the money, little for regular people and small business (unless you plan for a large advertising budget).

It won't happen right away. It might even be very slow. Maybe it'll be stopped in court or held up by angry voters. I certainly hope so. This kind of buying up of everything by big corporations really irks me. The Internet should be a free market of ideas, not a free market of just money. In fact (pure editorial venting here)...I hate big corporations and my personal life is now as corporation-free as I can possibly make it.

Worst Case Scenario:

There are sure to be workarounds. I'm pretty sure that lots of folks won't be happy with the new arrangement and some of them will be computer geeks. Somebody will think up a sneaky back-door alternative. There exists a thing called the Deep Web, and you can't get to it with a mainstream search engine matter how hard you. Lots of people don't know this even exists. But if you download something called Tor, you can get in!

It'll be something like that -- browsers, secret or free ISPs to go around the big corporate ISP you're using -- that kind of thing. It's still a problem, though, since we do want people who wouldn't have a clue how to install stuff on their computers to be present here too.

Being centered around a fetish filled with beautiful actresses, this forum has a natural advantage in that people will be willing to wait for it to load should the worst happen. A small accounting firm can't claim to be anywhere near as interesting as quicksand fetish.

My advice, Dave, is to keep your eyes wide open and lap up any alternative well in advance of the day you need it. Sounds like you're already learning stuff, but keep learning it. Don't do it 'til you have to but if you have to move, do it, and if you have to provide a backdoor way in, do it.

My advice for everybody else is that if you like being here for free and like the way this site loads, get political. Badger the crap out of your politicians and the FCC itself. Don't count on the free market to solve this for you. Markets like sell tickets.

Nessie