Quicksand Fans

It’s NOT okay for moderators to censor what people are saying in here. I served 20 years in the military to protect YOUR FREEDOMS, INCLUDING THE FREEDOM OF SPEECH. This isn’t some board in North Korea. It’s here in the United States. Hundreds of thousands of other Americans gave their lives so YOU can enjoy your freedom. Yet anything we post has to be pre-approved by a moderator? You moderators should be downright ashamed of yourselves. As an American, YOU SHOULD BE PROTECTING THE FREEDOMS OF OTHERS IN HERE, NOT STOMPING ON THEM. This is how you run off your clientele. You don’t seriously think I would be interested in any of your videos while knowing that ONCE AGAIN you’re trying to censor speech. That was the ENTIRE PROBLEM BEHIND YOUR TRYING TO STOP OTHERS FROM TALKING ABOUT A DEATH IN HERE. I don’t expect you to allow this posting to go on the board. It’s not meant for the general audience. It’s meant for the moderators. I’ve been to a country where there was censorship. It wasn’t pretty. How would you like it if the government started censorship against you? I seriously doubt that you’d like it. And yet you think it’s fine to do that in here. You have hardly anyone posting much of anything in here anymore. I wonder why...because it would be nice if there was some discussion. After all, sinking season is in full swing, yet nobody has much of anything to say in here.

Sinkman61's posts currently require approval because he violated rule #1.

Ironically, this is about protecting board members - against being harassed.

Dave

I will express total agreement with Dave's post here. Freedom of speech is not absolute. One does not have a right to stand up in a darkened, crowded theater and yell "Fire." Freedom of speech does not protect a person who makes false accusations, for another example. Freedom of speech also does not necessarily apply everywhere. While the government may not infringe someone's right to say certain things that is not necessarily so in a private business.

It's not un-American at all. Privately owned forums fall under the jurisdiction of their owners. They can remove content at any time for any reason they deem in violation of their terms and services.

I've been a member here for nearly two years, have posted nearly 200 times, and have not (to my knowledge) violated any of the forum rules, yet all of my posts are subject to moderation, and I have no idea when (or even if) there will ever be a time when they aren't. Is this censorship? Of course not. The site owners and moderators are seeking to create and maintain a safe, enjoyable, and respectful environment for all the members that also doesn't give outsiders any reason to suspect that there is anything illegal or exploitative (e.g., child porn, snuff films, etc.) going on or being encouraged on the forum. I'm perfectly happy for my posts to be moderated; their appearance on the forum confirms to me that I haven't inadvertently overstepped any bounds that are spelled out in the forum rules that apply equally to everyone.

Censorship....very un-American.

There are few things more American than the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR)

Article 19 of the UDHR states that "everyone shall have the right to hold opinions without interference" and "everyone shall have the right to freedom of expression; this right shall include freedom to seek, receive and impart information and ideas of all kinds, regardless of frontiers, either orally, in writing or in print, in the form of art, or through any other media of his choice".

(HOWEVER....)

The version of Article 19 in the ICCPR later amends this by stating that the exercise of these rights carries "special duties and responsibilities" and may "therefore be subject to certain restrictions" when necessary "for respect of the rights or reputation of others" or "for the protection of national security or of public order (order public), or of public health or morals".

Freedom of speech and expression, therefore, may not be recognized as being absolute, and common limitations or boundaries to freedom of speech relate to libel, slander, obscenity, pornography, sedition, incitement, fighting words, classified information, copyright violation, trade secrets, food labeling, non-disclosure agreements, the right to privacy, the right to be forgotten, public security, and perjury.

Justifications for such include the harm principle, proposed by John Stuart Mill in On Liberty, which suggests that: "the only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any member of a civilized community, against his will, is to prevent harm to others."

God Bless America. THAT'S what you fought for.

When I first joined, I wondered why it took several days for my posts to appear. The posts are appearing much faster now. I now realize that if Dave and Fred are the only mods (right?) then they are extreme busy with all the production work they do. I frequently browse the producers area and I am impressed with all the work that producing QS Videos must involve.

At one time I wondered if the mods would eventually trust that the content that I provide would not need to be read first before being posted to the forum.

It would be nice if there was a point where some trusted members could avoid the delay in posting. This would allow some members to discuss things in almost real time like in other forums. This privilege could be revoked if that member blatantly violates a rule. The penalty could be several months of flawless adherence to the rules following a written mea culpa. The offending content would obviously be removed.

I have also sent PM's that were never responded to. I realize that the member may have blown me off, or just never checked their PM's, or do not have their profile configured to receive PM's. But it did make me wonder if the PM got dropped in the mod approval process.

That said, I do respect Dave and Fred. Thank you guys for posting Sinkman61's concerns about censorship. I find his input both interesting and valuable. He has shared a lot of very important information on sinking safety.

It is important to note that this forum has both fantasy sinkers and real sinkers. The QS Video Industry caters mainly to the fantasy sinker. Most members here realize (or should realize ) that the actresses in these videos are not in any serious risk of suffocation.

I am a real sinker. And I believe that a good number of members here are real sinkers. Real sinkers need real understanding of the risks they take and the skills they need to mitigate those risks.

I have been a boater/kayaker for many years. Drowning in water and drowning in mud share similar causes. I.e. entrapment. Ugly, scary word. I am sorry that you have to hear that word but it is a real danger that needs to be reckoned with.

I have heard quite a few boating horror stories. And I have experienced a few close calls myself. I have learned from each one of these. Many (all?) of these accidents/close calls could have prevented if people would have understood the risks (cause and effect) and how to interpret and mitigate them. Boaters share these stories freely. Some are probably urban legend but regardless, there is a clear message in each case, and only positive outcomes can result from sharing this information.

I believe that these actual drowning mishaps should not be censored simply because some of the fantasy sinkers need to have an unwitting victim for their enjoyment to work.

Maybe the Discussion area of the forum could be divided into Fantasy and Real. Maybe this would also help to reduce any potential liability assumed by the forum owners.

Thank you for listening Dave and Fred.

You're still behind that newspaper-article from 117 years ago? Wow, get a life, dude.
That's also free speech.
Now bring in the popcorn and watch the comments

Sinkman61 wrote:It’s NOT okay for moderators to censor what people are saying in here. I served 20 years in the military to protect YOUR FREEDOMS, INCLUDING THE FREEDOM OF SPEECH..

So did my father and a great many others. You may have been absent during that moment when they explain what you were defending. Please permit me to refresh your memory.

You swore an oath to preserve protect and defend the Constitution of United States of America not QSF. The first amendment says the government cannot prevent us from saying something but it does not mean that you have the right to yell fire in a crowded theater . It does not mean you can slander or harass someone or break the rules you have a agreed to here. I also have been to a country where freedom of speech was denied. This entire board would not exist because it would be stopped dead at the firewall.

Your argument is so riddled with inaccuracies and hyperbole that I question it’s authenticity. Even Boy Scouts know what I am saying much less 20 year vets.

bogbud wrote:You're still behind that newspaper-article from 117 years ago? Wow, get a life, dude.
That's also free speech.
Now bring in the popcorn and watch the comments

It might helpful bogbud if you would make it clear whose comment you are referring too.

Either way, I find your statements here in violation of Rule #1. It is interesting that we are discussing a forum rule and you clearly violate Rule #1.

Rule #1. Treat others with respect. Disagreement can be civilized.

By you saying, "get a life" you are clearly being disrespectful and uncivilized (def - impolite; bad-mannered). You intended to disrespect me or the OP. I'm surprised that your post got past the mods. Maybe you are not censored? Hopefully there is no bias here toward newer members.

Obviously there are more recent accounts of quicksand accidents. I simply agree with Sinkman61 that I am in favor of discussing them on this forum. So some of us disagree. Fine, leave it alone if you do not have something constructive to add to the discussion.

Hurling disrespectful comments is not constructive and violates Rule #1.