Does wearing shoes make it harder to escape quicksand?

[curiousguy]

The observations are valid but I think a physicist would argue that suction has nothing to do with anything here. Its friction. There will be more friction as a shoe is moved through any fluid because the shoe is larger than a foot and has a more irregular surface. If that fluid is highly viscous the effect of the friction is increased because the fluid does not flow easily. For what its worth, I am not a physicist, although I may have played one somewhere.

But can't you directly feel the suction when pulling your leg out?

[Fred588]

The observations are valid but I think a physicist would argue that suction has nothing to do with anything here. Its friction. There will be more friction as a shoe is moved through any fluid because the shoe is larger than a foot and has a more irregular surface. If that fluid is highly viscous the effect of the friction is increased because the fluid does not flow easily. For what its worth, I am not a physicist, although I may have played one somewhere.

But can't you directly feel the suction when pulling your leg out?

You call call what you feel suction but its really friction. I suppose you can argue that pulling up on a foot creates a low pressure area under the foot because the mud has difficulty flowing around the foot and that would be a form of suction but the ultimate cause is friction.

[curiousguy]

The observations are valid but I think a physicist would argue that suction has nothing to do with anything here. Its friction. There will be more friction as a shoe is moved through any fluid because the shoe is larger than a foot and has a more irregular surface. If that fluid is highly viscous the effect of the friction is increased because the fluid does not flow easily. For what its worth, I am not a physicist, although I may have played one somewhere.

But can't you directly feel the suction when pulling your leg out?

You call call what you feel suction but its really friction. I suppose you can argue that pulling up on a foot creates a low pressure area under the foot because the mud has difficulty flowing around the foot and that would be a form of suction but the ultimate cause is friction.

So would boots produce more suction than shoes because the upper part of the boot exists?

[Fred588]

The observations are valid but I think a physicist would argue that suction has nothing to do with anything here. Its friction. There will be more friction as a shoe is moved through any fluid because the shoe is larger than a foot and has a more irregular surface. If that fluid is highly viscous the effect of the friction is increased because the fluid does not flow easily. For what its worth, I am not a physicist, although I may have played one somewhere.

But can't you directly feel the suction when pulling your leg out?

You call call what you feel suction but its really friction. I suppose you can argue that pulling up on a foot creates a low pressure area under the foot because the mud has difficulty flowing around the foot and that would be a form of suction but the ultimate cause is friction.

So would boots produce more suction than shoes because the upper part of the boot exists?

All I can say is I get more comments, from actresses, about being hard to move when they are wearing boots than shoes of the same kind of material.

[mudxdresser]

The main problem with most footwear is the presence of some sort of lip that presents resistance to the foot being lifted upward. Different types of mud may behave differently but I've been in a LOT of mud and I assure you that suction is definitely involved. If you are going to wear shoes in some unknown texture mud, the important thing, ironically, is that they come off easily. Your skin is very smooth compared to most footwear so the only thing that might behave in a similar manner when escaping mud suction is latex or wetlook waverunner socks.

Suction or friction? That is the type of thing that folks I've met that are into being stuck like to talk about to keep the conversation going. I've had folks at mudpits ignor my advice and wear footwear that immediately got them stuck in relatively shallow mud that I had no problem wading through in socks and it took hours to free them. I assure you, I can take you to mudpits where if you wear most any type of footwear, you will get stuck and you will not get out unless there is someone with you to go for help or dig you out.

Note that if you ever get stuck, immediately avoid your weight pushing you down deeper, sit or lay down. If you are attempting to help someone who is stuck, never, never approach them except by crawling.

[Nessie]

All I can say is I get more comments, from actresses, about being hard to move when they are wearing boots than shoes of the same kind of material.

One of them was probably me.

Boots are the worst. 'Tis true I did a few boot scenes but not in any place that I didn't already know wouldn't be too sticky.

The bottom of the mudpit is the part that gets you. One of my very first mudpits gobbled up a swim shoe. The actual depth was totally non-threatening -- just three feet. But it absolutely wouldn't give up that shoe. I finally slid my foot out of it -- no problem with that either, only the shoe was stuck. So I knelt in the mud and reached under and grabbed it with both hands and tried to pull it out.

Nope.

Fortunately it was an easy location. It was a very short walk...with one bare foot.

That was over ten years ago. I still drive by that little bog now and then and I wonder how that shoe is doing in there.

Nessie

[Fred588]

All I can say is I get more comments, from actresses, about being hard to move when they are wearing boots than shoes of the same kind of material.

One of them was probably me.

Boots are the worst. 'Tis true I did a few boot scenes but not in any place that I didn't already know wouldn't be too sticky.

The bottom of the mudpit is the part that gets you. One of my very first mudpits gobbled up a swim shoe. The actual depth was totally non-threatening -- just three feet. But it absolutely wouldn't give up that shoe. I finally slid my foot out of it -- no problem with that either, only the shoe was stuck. So I knelt in the mud and reached under and grabbed it with both hands and tried to pull it out.

Nope.

Fortunately it was an easy location. It was a very short walk...with one bare foot.

That was over ten years ago. I still drive by that little bog now and then and I wonder how that shoe is doing in there.

Nessie

It probably germinated and produced a shoe tree.

[bogbud]

That stuff you guys and Nessie are sinking in must be quite different from the muds and bogs over here. I do always wear boots or waders and never lost them. Sure, there is a lot of suction (not friction) involved, that needs a lot of wiggling, bending and pulling to break it, but i have never been in real danger of getting stuck for good. There have been only a few times i had to dig myself out and that happened in hip-deep mud that became too thick to sink further in. It was that stiff that i could comfortably dig all the mud out around me until i was able to push my hands under the soles of the boots, bend them and break the suction.
I have absolutely no idea how something like that should take hours?!?

Sidenote: I have lots of experience with swamps, bogs and tidal mudflats. I have never been to quarries, claypits or in real quicksand.

[Nessie]

That stuff you guys and Nessie are sinking in must be quite different from the muds and bogs over here.

My personal sinking places were all pretty non-threatening, actually -- I never did get seriously stuck at any of my own locations. I didn't even get partially stuck.

I'm not sure what was up with the shoe as my actual bare foot had no difficulty at all. I even remember kneeling in that muck pulling on that stupid shoe with both hands and still failing to move it. I stood right up and left the mud -- no problem -- but without the shoe!

It didn't ever happen to me again, either.

I have a theory that experienced mud people tend not to get stuck a lot unless we really like being stuck or the danger of potentially losing the struggle is part of the turn-on. We learn what deep mud is really like, and eventually we mostly just know what we should and shouldn't do.

I once received an email from a mud man who passed me a news story about a guy working on electric poles strung over a marsh who got seriously stuck in a location very close to where I live. He had to be rescued. And a lot of my personal sinking spots looked exactly like that. I even had that exact marsh on my list of places to explore until I discovered that it was private property.

I'm going to bet, though, that the electric worker was wearing work boots!

Nessie

[maria]

I've been very stuck wearing waders, and like others here, it's been hip deep. I would call it a cross between clay and pure quicksand - I called it quickmud regardless of any serious definition. And there is without any doubt a suction effect, combined of course with friction.

I was so stuck in this stuff that the camera overheated while I was filming and couldn't get out. More than an hour later I eventually dug myself out and only when I could see the very heel of one wader was I able to just slip some fingers under it and heave the boot out. This was in a quarry.

And like Nessie said, there might be an element in truth about the getting stuck part of the sink