Can Your Arms Really get trapped in Real Quicksand?

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somebodyelse
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Can Your Arms Really get trapped in Real Quicksand?

Postby somebodyelse » Wed Feb 10, 2021 5:03 am

I've watched a metric ton of all of the wonderful product you guys produce and I see that a common thread (which totally a trigger and most arousing). In many videos, the victim will attempt to try to push up out of the bog, only to have the surface cave in around their arms. They slowly sink back down, but not slow enough to be able to free their arms. They struggle like hell to get out (i.e., Christina Carter, Star, Selene Drake, Nyssa Nevers, et al) ) but they only sink deeper, their arms down by their sides (I am totally not complaining.) Can/does this actually happen in the real thing? I seem to remember Star slowly sinking in real quicksand in her last portfolio photo shoot, and when the photographer goes back to the van for a new lens, she tries to get out, but only succeeds in getting her arms trapped as she struggles to get free.

So the bottom line question is, if I were to find myself caught in quicksand, and as I pushed myself up (and hopefully out), and the sand gave way, caved in/liquified. causing me to sink to my chest with my arms by my sides, would I be toast, or would the sand be wet enough to let me (eventually) pull my arms out and try again? Same question for seep mud as well.

PS: In all honesty, that is the place at which I picture myself, having struggled too much, and ending up chest deep, with my arms caught by sides, and struggling for my life (e.g., Seline Drake in "Nitty Gritty," or Christine Carter in "Christina and Alexis Grace,").

Thanks!
Last edited by somebodyelse on Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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bogbud
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Re: Can Your Arms Really get trapped in Real Quicksand?

Postby bogbud » Wed Feb 10, 2021 12:07 pm

I use my arms regularly to sink deeper and push myself beyond the point of buoyancy. In thick mud (I only sink in peat or tidal mud, not real quicksand) it gets quite difficult to lift your arms because of the weight of the mud you have to push away. Wearing long gloves like me does not help either.
Getting stuck like the models pretend did not happen so far.
I'm already chindeep in this mudbog and every desperate attempt to move my stuck legs only drives me deeper in. The thick mud slowly swamps my waders and my arms have nothing to hold onto.
I'm feeling home.

beachbum
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Re: Can Your Arms Really get trapped in Real Quicksand?

Postby beachbum » Thu Feb 11, 2021 3:35 pm

I think it would also depend how deep you are and the thickness of the mud. I cannot see how just waist deep your hands would get stuck but if chest deep and the mud is thick it may be difficult to pull them out over your head. I sunk in mud once much deeper than I thought about chest deep and I kept my arms above the ground since I worried with the weight of the mud that I would not be able to pull them out and then sink deeper.

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Duncan Edwards
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Re: Can Your Arms Really get trapped in Real Quicksand?

Postby Duncan Edwards » Thu Feb 11, 2021 4:06 pm

There have been times n the past where I was barely able to extract my legs from knee deep situations. I also know that in MPV "real quicksand" scenes the sand rapidly turns into concrete if the water stops flowing. I've seen models get stuck below the knee even while barefoot. All this adds up to yes, I'm certain that that there would be situations where your arms could get trapped. It would be a rare set of circumstances but I'm sure they could exist.
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beachbum
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Re: Can Your Arms Really get trapped in Real Quicksand?

Postby beachbum » Thu Feb 11, 2021 5:00 pm

Duncan,

If that happens in the MPV real quicksand then a model neck deep that stopped moving would get their arms stuck but i guess that is why those scenes you really never see the model below the waist. I did not realize that the real quicksand could turn rapidly into concrete and I'm sure you had a few off camera rescues. I could see in the ashley real quicksand scene where she was wearing the white and red shirt the quicksand turning into concrete.

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Mynock
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Re: Can Your Arms Really get trapped in Real Quicksand?

Postby Mynock » Thu Feb 11, 2021 5:37 pm

I've never actually gotten my arms stuck but I've been in the situation several times where I was about chest deep, and pulling them free pulled the rest of me down to shoulder or even neck deep. This was in really thick clay though, not actual quicksand. 8-)
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Re: Can Your Arms Really get trapped in Real Quicksand?

Postby Fred588 » Thu Feb 11, 2021 7:27 pm

I am sure some will disagree with me on details but if we look at this from a scientific point of view there are probably four factors involved, three from the domain of physics and one from anatomy. From physics the factors are buoyancy, viscosity, and turbulence. If buoyancy is considered by itself then it should always require LESS force to lift the arms out than to push them down. Therefore buoyancy should not contribute to getting trapped. Viscosity refers to the "thickness" or resistance to movement through a liquid. It is easier to move an object through a low viscosity fluid than a high viscosity fluid. In any Newtonian fluid, such as clay or peat, the resistance to movement should be the same regardless of direction so long as the moving object is fully within the fluid. [Note that as an arm is raised above the surface, however, buoyancy is lost.] In a non-Newtonian fluid, however, the apparent viscosity can change. I am using the term viscosity loosely here. True quicksand is a non-Newtonian fluid and the same is true for faux quicksand made from cornstarch. This change in apparent viscosity is what we refer to when we say the quicksand "locks up." The anatomical factor is that humans are land animals. Our major muscles are constructed to work against gravity most of the time. This sounds complicated but it really just means, for example, that if you consider your keg muscles you will find that they are MUCH stronger pushing down against the ground than doing the opposite. It can be easier to move a limb through mud in one direction than in the other.
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bogbud
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Re: Can Your Arms Really get trapped in Real Quicksand?

Postby bogbud » Thu Feb 11, 2021 9:00 pm

Fred, there is another major factor:
You have to move your arms against the mud and bend them to get them up. This is what I meant in my post. Example, I've sunk up to my neck and my arms are tightly pressed to my body. When I want to get them out I have to move them through the mud all the way up to the surface. They are not "stuck" even in thick mud but rather buried and that makes it difficult. Sometimes (in layered mud with soft stuff deeper down, like in peatbogs) attempts to lift them up will drive the body deeper, so you have to be careful.
I'm already chindeep in this mudbog and every desperate attempt to move my stuck legs only drives me deeper in. The thick mud slowly swamps my waders and my arms have nothing to hold onto.
I'm feeling home.

Sinkman61
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Re: Can Your Arms Really get trapped in Real Quicksand?

Postby Sinkman61 » Mon Jul 19, 2021 9:24 am

If the quicksand that you’re in is made up mostly of sand with a very low content of clay or mud, then if the water that agitated it was to stop flowing and your arms are down along your sides with you being chest deep, yes, it’s going to be really hard to get your arms free. But that’s because without agitation, the sand will settle out and basically turn to concrete, making it nearly impossible for you to even move, let alone get your arms free. I can’t imagine a situation in which that would happen. It’s certainly never happened to me. I’ve been down deep in mud where getting my arms free was quite difficult, but that’s because I slowly sank down in rather thick mud. When I’m in that type of mud, which is plentiful around here, I’ll typically put my hands down into my pockets and leave them there, as the mud here is more than sticky enough that in most cases, you don’t need to pull yourself down into the mud with your arms to get down past your buoyancy point. Just pushing the heels of your shoes down is enough to continue to slowly sink down as deep as you want to go, providing that you don’t tire yourself out in the process. Between the stickiness of the mud and the suction it’s creating around your body, you won’t be floating back up to the surface in the thick mud here. My deepest sink in thick mud was down to where I was looking up at the mud that encased my head. I was slightly below the surface, but the mud was thick enough that it hadn’t covered over my face. Escaping took awhile, as first I had to free my arms so I could reach back up to the surface. They were being squeezed tightly against my sides (which is why I like thick mud to begin with). While still not the worst suction I’ve ever dealt with, getting out took well over an hour. I was able to slowly work myself back up to shoulder depth, but that was about all. From that point, I literally had to dig myself out, because there simply wasn’t any surface that was strong enough to push down against to get myself up higher. That means that I needed to somehow break some of the suction that was holding me down. To do that, I’ll remove some of the mud from my front and sides as far down as I can reach to where the suction is less. Then I can very slowly work my way back up again. Such escapes are both long and tiring. And they burn off a lot of calories. Thankfully, when the mud is that thick, it’s doesn’t cave back in around you as fast as you can dig it out. And that which does isn’t squeezing in on you as tightly as that which you removed. However, most of the areas I typically sink in, digging yourself out is pointless, as the mud just piles in as fast as you can remove it.


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