the 2 recently-found TV/movie scenes

[russty]

Hi.

I saw the two recent scenes (the one from the soap opera and the one from the Mongol movie) and I noticed they had one thing in common: both had damsels in distress who were rescued by men. This got me thinking....

I remember a couple of years back I started a discussion on deepsinking about why people seemed to prefer grim endings. I don't. The subject title was something like "quicksand videos -- life or death". From the responses, it appeared that a small majority preferred grim endings.

I also recall that some of the video producers have said that their movies that have men in them at all (along with the girls, of course) tend to not sell as well.

So I just wondered, are both of these things still true? I thought these two recent scenes were great, and I'd love to see more of this type of scene. Probably just my way of actually putting myself into the scene. Or is there, perhaps, a silent majority that would love to see more scenes of men rescuing women from the mire?

Bob St.

[Fred588]

I can't really answer the question about whether or not anything has changed.

I think, however, that when most producers express the opinion that scenes with makes do not sell they are referring mostly to scenes mainly focused on males sinking or on scenes with a male (and probably a female) in some sort of sexually oriented situation. They are not, again in my opinion, referring to scenes in which a male plays a secondary or minor role. I have shot, and appeared in, scenes of this kind and I can't say it seems to matter much.

The above said, it is also my opinion that the inclusion of male subjects, in minor or major roles, does not have any meaningful effect on enhancing sales. It would be nice to be proved wrong, as males willing to act in scenes for free are probably fairly abundant.

Hi.

I saw the two recent scenes (the one from the soap opera and the one from the Mongol movie) and I noticed they had one thing in common: both had damsels in distress who were rescued by men. This got me thinking....

I remember a couple of years back I started a discussion on deepsinking about why people seemed to prefer grim endings. I don't. The subject title was something like "quicksand videos -- life or death". From the responses, it appeared that a small majority preferred grim endings.

I also recall that some of the video producers have said that their movies that have men in them at all (along with the girls, of course) tend to not sell as well.

So I just wondered, are both of these things still true? I thought these two recent scenes were great, and I'd love to see more of this type of scene. Probably just my way of actually putting myself into the scene. Or is there, perhaps, a silent majority that would love to see more scenes of men rescuing women from the mire?

Bob St.

[nachtjaeger]

I think the problem with that is, someone watching a fetish video probably wants (conciously or unconcioulsy) to be able to put themselves into the scene.

I can't really answer the question about whether or not anything has changed.

I think, however, that when most producers express the opinion that scenes with makes do not sell they are referring mostly to scenes mainly focused on males sinking or on scenes with a male (and probably a female) in some sort of sexually oriented situation. They are not, again in my opinion, referring to scenes in which a male plays a secondary or minor role. I have shot, and appeared in, scenes of this kind and I can't say it seems to matter much.

The above said, it is also my opinion that the inclusion of male subjects, in minor or major roles, does not have any meaningful effect on enhancing sales. It would be nice to be proved wrong, as males willing to act in scenes for free are probably fairly abundant.

Hi.

I saw the two recent scenes (the one from the soap opera and the one from the Mongol movie) and I noticed they had one thing in common: both had damsels in distress who were rescued by men. This got me thinking....

I remember a couple of years back I started a discussion on deepsinking about why people seemed to prefer grim endings. I don't. The subject title was something like "quicksand videos -- life or death". From the responses, it appeared that a small majority preferred grim endings.

I also recall that some of the video producers have said that their movies that have men in them at all (along with the girls, of course) tend to not sell as well.

So I just wondered, are both of these things still true? I thought these two recent scenes were great, and I'd love to see more of this type of scene. Probably just my way of actually putting myself into the scene. Or is there, perhaps, a silent majority that would love to see more scenes of men rescuing women from the mire?

Bob St.

[dlodoski]

For me, it comes down to a matter of expediency. There simply aren't guys available (on my shoots anyways) to appear on camera. The rescues I've written into my stuff have been performed by other female models that were there at the time.

I think it's important to make the distinction, as Fred has, of the difference between males appearing as primary characters, as opposed to secondary characters. I clearly remember the earlier discussion being about males in primary (sinking) roles. So it would be useful if this thread continued down that path, or preferably discussed the newer topic of males as rescuers or other secondary roles - but not both.

There is a third category of male involvement, which is a male/female sinking scene (a couple or otherwise). I missed my opportunity participate in a thread about that. I might add here that I would consider shooting such a scene, for sure, but the same problem of available performers comes up. The only thing I could do is hire a guy for one day, and shoot all the permutations of how I could see a guy being in scenes that will be 'enjoyed' by a male audience. I'm not sure that could even take up a whole day...

But I do have a question then, for the Damsels in Distress guys (only). Is there any difference in placing yourself in a scene if the rescuer is male or female?

[jack c]

Although a good submersion ( or fade-to-black imminent submersion) scene has a certain appeal, I too prefer a rescue scene. You could combine both by having the (sort of cliche, but still OK) damsel sink under with arms up, only to have the rescuer grab the outstretched hands at the last second (Death Curse of Tartu-style, even though that movie had a lousy bog - really a non-bog). To answer your direct question, it is easier for me to relate to the scene if the rescuer is male, because there is the implied future relationship between damsel and rescuer. Just my thoughts, but a female rescue is still OK.

[Chimerix]

While I don't consider myself a "grim ending" kind of guy, I want to see the victim go under, and I kind of prefer the scene to end there. I'm just not interested in seeing the rescue. I'm happy to believe that the victim climbed out or was saved 3 seconds after the scene ended, but it really doesn't matter to me.

I also don't really care about extra footage of models hosing off. Not that they aren't fun to look at, but what I spent money on was to see them sinking in quicksand.

Having men involved would definitely be my second choice. Any quicksand is better than no quicksand, but women in quicksand is better than men in quicksand. And women rescuers (if there must be rescuers) are better than men rescuers.

However, there's something special (to me) about seeing women holding hands. Slippery, quicksand-covered hands are even better. So, how about more females in attempted (but failed) rescues?

With one caveat: On the scenes that appear on TV and in the movies, it's always seemed to me that women get rescued more than men. So, if a man falls into quicksand, there's better odds I'll get my submergence! It's not a foolproof system, and the character alignment usually plays into it, but I find it to be true.

[Duncan Edwards]

Keep in mind that quicksand for mainstream tv/movie people is a plot element to get male and female together. For our audience it's a fetish that can border on addiction. Grim subersions are not an absolute necessity for me. I enjoy seeing pretty ladies play around in a certain fashion (Nessie's clips, Chuck Lang) as well as being victims of hopeless peril in the bog. This all gets back to why we like what we like but putting a guy in there is like crowding the party. I'm not one who cares to share my fantasy with another guy. Two women in the scene can double the fun for me however if one of them is not very attractive she might as well be a guy because I'd never have sex with her in the first place. Hence my interest in the scene, a visual metaphor for sex, is greatly diminished.

While I have no metrics or empirical data to back this up I suspect that the majority of paying customers out there feel much the same way. I would never rule guys out of a scene but I know what the safe bet is too. If there were much of a market for anything different and that need wasn't being addressed then someone would step up and fill the need. That's how we got what we have to begin with.

[russty]

Hi.

In terms of the question of whether a man rescuing a woman from the mire is preferable to a woman rescuing a woman, yes it is, at least a little bit. A scene where a beautiful woman is rescued by a short, fat, balding, bearded, yet-somehow-stunningly-handsome 40-something male named Bob would, of course, be the ideal.

Breathlessly awaiting the ideal....

Bob St.