Movies vs Reality

[water_bug_62208]

I was intrigued by the conversation in Sink the Bismark between Karel Štěpánek (Admiral Günther Lütjens) and Carl Möhner (Captain Ernest Lindemann) where Štěpánek talks about a battle fleet comprising of Bismark and Prinz Eugen along with the German battleships Scharnhorst and Gneisenau. I know they would've still been outnumbered by the British Fleet, but I'm left wondering the impact such a fighting force comprising of those four warships could've had on the British. Perhaps throw in Bismark's sister ship, Tirpitz, for good measure...?

[Lomax]

I was intrigued by the conversation in Sink the Bismark between Karel Štěpánek (Admiral Günther Lütjens) and Carl Möhner (Captain Ernest Lindemann) where Štěpánek talks about a battle fleet comprising of Bismark and Prinz Eugen along with the German battleships Scharnhorst and Gneisenau. I know they would've still been outnumbered by the British Fleet, but I'm left wondering the impact such a fighting force comprising of those four warships could've had on the British. Perhaps throw in Bismark's sister ship, Tirpitz, for good measure...?

The Tirpitz wasn't operational at the time. And the Scharnhorst and Gneisenau were under-gunned for a clash of capital ships. Their main batteries were 11-inchers; and though at the time of their design the capacity to have these replaced by 15-inchers with minimal modification was incorporated, this was never done.

Operation Wacht am Rhein was only ever intended as a commerce raid (with added propaganda value); Luetjens had orders to avoid all engagement with RN Battleships, and was more than a little taken aback when they ran into Hood and Prince of Wales. He refused Lindemann permission to pursue and finish off the damaged PoW and tried to run for it.

Had Bismarck escaped into the Atlantic with Scharnhorst, Gneisenau & Prinz Eugen, the Admiralty would've had a fit and sent the whole of the Home Fleet after them, and probably most of the Mediterranean Fleet as well. Once the game of hide-and-seek was over, the result would've been inevitable.

[kham]

Yeah
The problem the KM has is that as time goes by, their tactical situation does not improve. Lets say for the sake of argument, we wait, say until 1943; we have Tirpitz available and we even get the conversions done on Scharnhorst and Gneisenau. We include Prinz Eugen and Hipper. Now, this would be a major sortie, the biggest since the the days of the High Seas Fleet. And requiring a fair amount of logistical support and fuel. For the sake of argument, lets make it available.
Lets get our naval wargaming head into things here, for a scenario, for thats what we do for this sort of thing

KM
Bismark
Tirpitz
Scharnhorst
Gneisenau
Prinz Eugen
Hipper

Assume an interception point after the breakout not unlike 1941, so the Denmark Strait area

RN
1st Division
HMS Hood
HMS King George V
HMS Duke of York
HMS Anson
HMS Howe

2nd Division
HMS Warspite
HMS Valiant
HMS Malaya
HMS Nelson
HMS Rodney

If you going to rumble, never give the sucker an even break Scenario -wise terrible balance; reality -wise, very likely what would be sortied. This aint a sporting event

Just on the face of it, the KM doesn't have a prayer; they enjoy a slight speed advantage over the 1st Division but I'm happy to chase them all across to Newfoundland if they like. I can get fuel. They can't

Force like this would normally have a score of DDs but same as the original fight, the weather sucked, and Hood detatched hers because they couldnt keep up in the seas and were getting beaten up; same deal

[water_bug_62208]

Impressive lay out of warships! The odds certainly aren't good for the German fleet.

[kham]

Thats kinda the point; the 1st Division alone has more heavy guns than the entire German Task Force. Not that there aren't plenty of wank-fests about how the German guns are better, can fire faster, etc etc . Yeah
Forget the Napkinwaffe Bullshit; the moment they were stupid enough to declare war in '39, they were toast in any engagement. Plus, the Royal Navy's entire ethos is based on an aggressive spirit; The IJN would have a hard time matching them.

If I had such a force, in good visibility, with a full day ahead of me? I'd be licking my chops

Hoist Battle Ensigns!