The Need For Speed

[Duncan Edwards]

... what territory you consider to be "all of Europe", and from whom (or from what) it's free now. Of course, this topic is not the place to discuss it, but the question remains, and maybe to be asked in the future

Billie, I honestly expected to hear from you on this. Thank you for not disappointing me.

The answer is not as simple as I stated it but I think a good case could be made that East Germany, much of the former Warsaw Pact, (Hungary, Poland, Czech republic, etc) the Baltic republics, are now free from the former Soviet Empire. I doubt they would have been permitted to join NATO otherwise. This freedom was gained for them rather than lost for Western Europe because of the enormous spending and technological superiority of the free markets in the West. There are certainly other places farther east, Georgia for example, that live under the dominance of a neighbor or under their own poor government. No amount of weaponry will fix that.

the USA prefers there be no question about who would prevail in any future conflict.There is no such question. China, of course. You still have some time to fool themselves, but not for too long.

If I understand your statement correctly then China is indeed a rising colossus that we should all take notice of. For at least the foreseeable future I'm not overly concerned. China is becoming too integrated in the world economy and has historically looked more at inward problems than outward adventures. The biggest question when it comes to producing "ass-kicking" hardware is when they begin to produce a quality product and original technology of their own and not rely on others. I would say the dangers to China becoming less and less totalitarian are at least as great as any threat they represent.

to those who prefer warbirds:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEF-Z-ACmUo beautiful, huge and scary thing. However, I like this one more: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8NxGCeFYXQ Those who don't know may be not impressed. Just realize that this bird is 41.5 meters long and has normal take-off weight 112 tons.

And these birds aren't that big, but they're looking good. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVpDFlURQT8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GdfnTLKcvM Flying good, too.

Beautiful machines as well but here we cross into more of what determines real capability. Training, logistics, strategy, experience, quality of personnel, leadership, tactics, etc. are really what goes into developing an "ass-kicking" ability. As amatures we like to focus on the neat toys and not on what really makes it all work.

to those who are not going to kick someone's asses:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOMiKpmBmtg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwDhsgSeXc4

The true behemoth of the skies from your Ukraine? Correct? I have watched an AN-124 land at my own airport. This creation sounds like someone has dropped two large, tandem, highway trailer trucks, on the runway when it touches down. When you see it you tell yourself that nothing that size is supposed to fly. It's incredible. What were these wondrous machines doing in my town? They were under contract to load mysterious, sand colored, mobile homes and take them far away from here. Only the pilots knew where. I do know that during their layover the flight crews were happily entertained at the local Hooters establishment. There are far better things to do with an ass than kick it.

[kham]

Nice clips there Billie

What do you make of this one?

Tu-144 Hard Landing

I wasnt aware there was any flying examples left, let alone being used as a joint research lab; pretty cool

[Billie Bonce]

Nice clips there Billie

What do you make of this one?

Tu-144 Hard Landing

I wasnt aware there was any flying examples left, let alone being used as a joint research lab; pretty cool

Very often Tu-144 is believed to be a copy of Concorde, designed on the basis of stolen documentation (and somehow managed to have first flown one year before its "protoype")

Here is a rare footage of Sukhoi T4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OXdRKj3CCw (early 60-s or even late 50-s). Looks similar, right? Read description under the video, it's amazing. Nikita Hruschev didn't believe in aviation, he believed only in missiles. All the documentation of heavy bomber design was given to Tupolev design bureau. At least, Sukhoi design bureau wasn't liquidated. Unfortunately, Myasischev design bureau was. And their M4 (known to you as Bison) was much better than Tupolev Tu-95 (known as Bear). Not to say about this wonderful prototype, that have first flown in 1957 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OF3zGCra1e4

[Billie Bonce]

Billie, I honestly expected to hear from you on this. Thank you for not disappointing me.

Duncan, you are almost right in most of what you said. I wouldn't argue. The only thing one should always remember is that "the disruption is actually in minds" (said by Prof. Preobrazhensky from Michail Bulgakov's "Heart of a Dog"). You mentioned Georgia, you could mention Ukraine as well, Belarus, all the countries of Middle Asia. There are not governments that are bad in these countries. It's the way of thinking of most of the population. Sad but true. You think it is limited only by the former Soviet Union? No way. You mentioned East Germany. Yes, it suffered much during the Cold War. But who was those who killed so many Germans who attempted to escape across the Berlin wall? Russians? No. Other Germans. Yes, Czech republic suffered much, too. At Soviet times they hated the Russians, they never spoke Russian to Russian tourists. What is now? They bow low before the Russians, they all speak Russian, they print in Russian on all their products, because they are free from Russian empire, but they are totally dependent on money that the Russians bring them. Not to speak about Russian mafia. Well, I'd better stop now...

The true behemoth of the skies from your Ukraine? Correct?

Yep. I live in less than a mile from the design bureau where it was designed and the plant where it was constructed. I've seen "Mriya" on an aviation show in Hostomel (it's near, too, less than 10 miles from my home). Well, "very impressive" would be a great underestimation of the emotions. She is huge, but surprisingly maneuverable when empty. I'm amazed by videos on YouTube - it appears, so many people wait for hours somewhere around the airfields just to see the takeoff of Mriya.

An-124 Ruslans are rather common here, their sound is different from other planes, so I have time to spot it and watch. But it's only here they look that unusually huge, the modern 747s and A-380s are bigger than Ruslan.

[schlamm]

.

[kham]

Seems the Hawkeye drivers finding new ways to stay amused....

[schlamm]

*

[DangerGirl]

How about that F-22 Raptor though? Pretty sure that puppy's the closest we've come to building an X-Wing. I almost feel sorry for whoever has to go up against it.

Yeah, but it lacks style. I like to compare the lines of my '77 Monte Carlo with an '82 model. They took all the curves out of it and just ruined it. Same thing with the appearance of a Tomcat and a Raptor. I wouldn't want to get in a dogfight with an F-22 but it will never be beautiful in the same manner an F-14 was. Always made me laugh that Tom Cruise thought he was the star of Top Gun.

From a purely aesthetic perspective, the F-22 doesn't hold a candle to the YF-23 Black Widow II. The Widow edged out the Raptor in stealthiness and a lot of performance categories, too. I think the Air Force went with the safer, evolutionary design rather than the more revolutionary one.

[Duncan Edwards]

Yeah DG, for now. At least as far as we know. The YF-17 showed up later too.

[Mynock]

"as far as we know" is a very good point. You know if they're showing you the F-117 and the B-2 that somewhere out there is a newer, better plane they're not telling us about. We'll see it in 20 years or so.