Anyone Know About Basic Electronics?

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Fred588
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Anyone Know About Basic Electronics?

Postby Fred588 » Thu Dec 10, 2020 9:00 pm

If anyone here i perhaps you can answer a few questions. These have to do with s fairly knowledgeable about some very basic electronics related to a project I have in mind. The project has nothing whatsoever to do with quicksand.

1. What is the LOWEST output LED readily available?

2. Is it practical to connect 40 or so LEDs in a simple parallel circuit with a 12 (or 5) volt DC power supply.

3. Is there an easy way to use an LED to connect the two wires of a DC circuit. I say easy because the project would require 40 to 50 such connections.

I will be happy to discuss what all this is for with anyone who wants to know but will leave it out here because I suspect few will want to know.
Studio 588 currently offers more than 2200 different HD and QD quicksand videos and has supported production of well over 2400 video scenes and other projects by 13 different producers. Info may be found at:
http://studio588qs.com
http://quicksandland.com
http://psychicworldjungleland.com

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Duncan Edwards
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Re: Anyone Know About Basic Electronics?

Postby Duncan Edwards » Fri Dec 11, 2020 5:20 pm

Fred588 wrote:If anyone here i perhaps you can answer a few questions. These have to do with s fairly knowledgeable about some very basic electronics related to a project I have in mind. The project has nothing whatsoever to do with quicksand.

1. What is the LOWEST output LED readily available?

2. Is it practical to connect 40 or so LEDs in a simple parallel circuit with a 12 (or 5) volt DC power supply.

3. Is there an easy way to use an LED to connect the two wires of a DC circuit. I say easy because the project would require 40 to 50 such connections.

I will be happy to discuss what all this is for with anyone who wants to know but will leave it out here because I suspect few will want to know.


You can get very low power LED's. Are you talking about just low light output?

Yes, it's not unusual to string lots of low power LED together. Christmas tree lights for example.

Just physically connecting the wires? On that one I have to answer no if you are asking that question. For me it's easy.

Love to know more about what you are doing because I suspect you could buy whatever you are after already assembled. There's lots of that sort of thing out there.
It's a dirty job but I got to do it for over 20 years. Thank you.

Fred588
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Re: Anyone Know About Basic Electronics?

Postby Fred588 » Fri Dec 11, 2020 6:11 pm

Duncan Edwards wrote:
Fred588 wrote:If anyone here i perhaps you can answer a few questions. These have to do with s fairly knowledgeable about some very basic electronics related to a project I have in mind. The project has nothing whatsoever to do with quicksand.

1. What is the LOWEST output LED readily available?

2. Is it practical to connect 40 or so LEDs in a simple parallel circuit with a 12 (or 5) volt DC power supply.

3. Is there an easy way to use an LED to connect the two wires of a DC circuit. I say easy because the project would require 40 to 50 such connections.

I will be happy to discuss what all this is for with anyone who wants to know but will leave it out here because I suspect few will want to know.


You can get very low power LED's. Are you talking about just low light output?

Yes, it's not unusual to string lots of low power LED together. Christmas tree lights for example.

Just physically connecting the wires? On that one I have to answer no if you are asking that question. For me it's easy.

Love to know more about what you are doing because I suspect you could buy whatever you are after already assembled. There's lots of that sort of thing out there.


OK, here's all I left out the first time. I want the light output to be such that if the light is located a foot or more below the ceiling, the eye will easily see the light but NOT the ceiling, and without adding a shade behind each light. The issue with connections is this: The wire itself would be either two separate strands or paired strands pulled apart for each light. Obviously these would be insulated wire so each connection would require the insulation to be removed from a short segment of each wire, for each light. I presume each LED would be soldered in place, so that is 80 wire stripings and 80 solderings to make 40 lights.

This device would be powered using a 5v or 12v DC power supply, such as comes with a USB disk drive.

The application is as follows:
One room of the house is what I call the greenhouse. It is actually a room with a dirt floor and ordinary frame room. It is 12 by 24 and one long wall is almost entirely glass. It has been used for five years for growing the plants that decorate the sets and a few other places during the summer. The ceiling is slopped from a height of about 8 feet to about 12. For the future I plan to place a small table with four chairs near the center. I will then be able to serve dinner to up to four people, who will be surrounded by plants. [No carnivorous plants though] The plan is to suspend the proposed lights from the ceiling, mostly over the center 12 feet of the room, with the lights arranged randomly. The hope is that if the greenhouse lights are then turned off except for something just above the table (as in many fine restaurants) the 40 LED will give the illusion of the whole thing being outdoors under the sky (but without any bugs).

And to borrow a quite from Paul Harvey of years past.... "And now you have,...... the rest of the story."

In effect it could be thought of as the JungleLand Bar and Grill, for real.
Studio 588 currently offers more than 2200 different HD and QD quicksand videos and has supported production of well over 2400 video scenes and other projects by 13 different producers. Info may be found at:
http://studio588qs.com
http://quicksandland.com
http://psychicworldjungleland.com

Fred588
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Re: Anyone Know About Basic Electronics?

Postby Fred588 » Fri Dec 11, 2020 6:12 pm

post script: Fred takes his medicine and sits down.
Studio 588 currently offers more than 2200 different HD and QD quicksand videos and has supported production of well over 2400 video scenes and other projects by 13 different producers. Info may be found at:
http://studio588qs.com
http://quicksandland.com
http://psychicworldjungleland.com

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Duncan Edwards
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Re: Anyone Know About Basic Electronics?

Postby Duncan Edwards » Fri Dec 11, 2020 6:34 pm

I like the idea. You will find a lot of folks already have had similar notions and there's lot of stuff already complete. Go to Amazon and search LED ceiling stars - There are a host of neat little projects that will do a great job. If you want to go for some similar to what you first mentioned then do a search for fairy string LED lights. You can get them in many colors and shades all wired up and ready to go. I can tell you from personal experience its a a nice effect. They don't put out much light so plan on using them in a room with a dimmer for regular lighting and adjust to what suits you.

Cheap enough to experiment - https://www.amazon.com/Twinkle-Star-Pow ... 898&sr=8-4
It's a dirty job but I got to do it for over 20 years. Thank you.

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BogDog
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Re: Anyone Know About Basic Electronics?

Postby BogDog » Sun Dec 13, 2020 3:18 pm

Perhaps a black ceiling will help to hide it? Certainly you won't want anything light-reflective. Maybe deep matte blue or similar?
"Life is tough. It's tougher if you're stupid." - John Wayne

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TK421
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Re: Anyone Know About Basic Electronics?

Postby TK421 » Tue Dec 15, 2020 8:54 am

Fred588 wrote:
Duncan Edwards wrote:
Fred588 wrote:If anyone here i perhaps you can answer a few questions. These have to do with s fairly knowledgeable about some very basic electronics related to a project I have in mind. The project has nothing whatsoever to do with quicksand.

1. What is the LOWEST output LED readily available?

2. Is it practical to connect 40 or so LEDs in a simple parallel circuit with a 12 (or 5) volt DC power supply.

3. Is there an easy way to use an LED to connect the two wires of a DC circuit. I say easy because the project would require 40 to 50 such connections.

I will be happy to discuss what all this is for with anyone who wants to know but will leave it out here because I suspect few will want to know.


You can get very low power LED's. Are you talking about just low light output?

Yes, it's not unusual to string lots of low power LED together. Christmas tree lights for example.

Just physically connecting the wires? On that one I have to answer no if you are asking that question. For me it's easy.

Love to know more about what you are doing because I suspect you could buy whatever you are after already assembled. There's lots of that sort of thing out there.


OK, here's all I left out the first time. I want the light output to be such that if the light is located a foot or more below the ceiling, the eye will easily see the light but NOT the ceiling, and without adding a shade behind each light. The issue with connections is this: The wire itself would be either two separate strands or paired strands pulled apart for each light. Obviously these would be insulated wire so each connection would require the insulation to be removed from a short segment of each wire, for each light. I presume each LED would be soldered in place, so that is 80 wire stripings and 80 solderings to make 40 lights.

This device would be powered using a 5v or 12v DC power supply, such as comes with a USB disk drive.

The application is as follows:
One room of the house is what I call the greenhouse. It is actually a room with a dirt floor and ordinary frame room. It is 12 by 24 and one long wall is almost entirely glass. It has been used for five years for growing the plants that decorate the sets and a few other places during the summer. The ceiling is slopped from a height of about 8 feet to about 12. For the future I plan to place a small table with four chairs near the center. I will then be able to serve dinner to up to four people, who will be surrounded by plants. [No carnivorous plants though] The plan is to suspend the proposed lights from the ceiling, mostly over the center 12 feet of the room, with the lights arranged randomly. The hope is that if the greenhouse lights are then turned off except for something just above the table (as in many fine restaurants) the 40 LED will give the illusion of the whole thing being outdoors under the sky (but without any bugs).

And to borrow a quite from Paul Harvey of years past.... "And now you have,...... the rest of the story."

In effect it could be thought of as the JungleLand Bar and Grill, for real.


So there are a few ways you can tackle this.

Things you will need:
-LEDs
-2 conductor wire (CL2)
-Dimmable LED driver/transformer
- magnetic low voltage (MLV), electronic low voltage (ELV) or incandescent/halogen dimmer switch

*This will need AC current and a dimmer to operate so consult an electrician*


1st: LED. For a rule of thumb, most LEDs are going to be 12vDC but individually, you can find them in 3v, 5v or higher depending on the power supply you wish to use but because 12v power supplies are more commonly found and easily integrated into DMX, I tend to use 12v. I would assume you are strictly looking for white or clear LEDs. As a rule, Light emitting diodes, by themselves, are not dimmable. You will need a driver/transformer for that (more on that later).

You can certainly run them in series, parallel or series/parallel but the most consistent will be a series circuit because voltage will be distributed evenly across all diodes.

You can use 2 conductor wire 18-16 gauge (black would be ideal in this circumstance). A thing to note: these are still diodes so polarity matters. The LEDs should be marked negative to positive bias by either a red or black pigtail OR one tine will be longer than the other. They will be wired in this fashion.

Image

A thing to consider is amperage. It’s important to see what the draw will be before buying your transformer or you will have flicker but no worries, 40 LEDs shouldn’t consume too much. On the average, 3 LEDs draw about 20 milliAmps. These drivers are meant to push LED uplighting and cabinet lights of 100 or more LEDs so you will not need much.

For dimming any incandescent dimmer should work. This will wire directly to the LED driver. The LED driver is in charge of keeping the circuit stable even when AC current is dropped by the dimmer so the LEDs will not flicker.

It’s a bit more involved and this is more of a permanent installation.

With resistors, it is possible to have a similar dimming effect on LEDs of a simple 12v circuit but this takes some math, trial and error and some more soldering.
“We have no food.
We have no jobs.
OUR PETS HEADS ARE FALLING OFF!”

Fred588
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Re: Anyone Know About Basic Electronics?

Postby Fred588 » Tue Dec 15, 2020 1:15 pm

TK421 wrote:
Fred588 wrote:
Duncan Edwards wrote:
Fred588 wrote:If anyone here i perhaps you can answer a few questions. These have to do with s fairly knowledgeable about some very basic electronics related to a project I have in mind. The project has nothing whatsoever to do with quicksand.

1. What is the LOWEST output LED readily available?

2. Is it practical to connect 40 or so LEDs in a simple parallel circuit with a 12 (or 5) volt DC power supply.

3. Is there an easy way to use an LED to connect the two wires of a DC circuit. I say easy because the project would require 40 to 50 such connections.

I will be happy to discuss what all this is for with anyone who wants to know but will leave it out here because I suspect few will want to know.


You can get very low power LED's. Are you talking about just low light output?

Yes, it's not unusual to string lots of low power LED together. Christmas tree lights for example.

Just physically connecting the wires? On that one I have to answer no if you are asking that question. For me it's easy.

Love to know more about what you are doing because I suspect you could buy whatever you are after already assembled. There's lots of that sort of thing out there.


OK, here's all I left out the first time. I want the light output to be such that if the light is located a foot or more below the ceiling, the eye will easily see the light but NOT the ceiling, and without adding a shade behind each light. The issue with connections is this: The wire itself would be either two separate strands or paired strands pulled apart for each light. Obviously these would be insulated wire so each connection would require the insulation to be removed from a short segment of each wire, for each light. I presume each LED would be soldered in place, so that is 80 wire stripings and 80 solderings to make 40 lights.

This device would be powered using a 5v or 12v DC power supply, such as comes with a USB disk drive.

The application is as follows:
One room of the house is what I call the greenhouse. It is actually a room with a dirt floor and ordinary frame room. It is 12 by 24 and one long wall is almost entirely glass. It has been used for five years for growing the plants that decorate the sets and a few other places during the summer. The ceiling is slopped from a height of about 8 feet to about 12. For the future I plan to place a small table with four chairs near the center. I will then be able to serve dinner to up to four people, who will be surrounded by plants. [No carnivorous plants though] The plan is to suspend the proposed lights from the ceiling, mostly over the center 12 feet of the room, with the lights arranged randomly. The hope is that if the greenhouse lights are then turned off except for something just above the table (as in many fine restaurants) the 40 LED will give the illusion of the whole thing being outdoors under the sky (but without any bugs).

And to borrow a quite from Paul Harvey of years past.... "And now you have,...... the rest of the story."

In effect it could be thought of as the JungleLand Bar and Grill, for real.


So there are a few ways you can tackle this.

Things you will need:
-LEDs
-2 conductor wire (CL2)
-Dimmable LED driver/transformer
- magnetic low voltage (MLV), electronic low voltage (ELV) or incandescent/halogen dimmer switch

*This will need AC current and a dimmer to operate so consult an electrician*


1st: LED. For a rule of thumb, most LEDs are going to be 12vDC but individually, you can find them in 3v, 5v or higher depending on the power supply you wish to use but because 12v power supplies are more commonly found and easily integrated into DMX, I tend to use 12v. I would assume you are strictly looking for white or clear LEDs. As a rule, Light emitting diodes, by themselves, are not dimmable. You will need a driver/transformer for that (more on that later).

You can certainly run them in series, parallel or series/parallel but the most consistent will be a series circuit because voltage will be distributed evenly across all diodes.

You can use 2 conductor wire 18-16 gauge (black would be ideal in this circumstance). A thing to note: these are still diodes so polarity matters. The LEDs should be marked negative to positive bias by either a red or black pigtail OR one tine will be longer than the other. They will be wired in this fashion.

Image

A thing to consider is amperage. It’s important to see what the draw will be before buying your transformer or you will have flicker but no worries, 40 LEDs shouldn’t consume too much. On the average, 3 LEDs draw about 20 milliAmps. These drivers are meant to push LED uplighting and cabinet lights of 100 or more LEDs so you will not need much.

For dimming any incandescent dimmer should work. This will wire directly to the LED driver. The LED driver is in charge of keeping the circuit stable even when AC current is dropped by the dimmer so the LEDs will not flicker.

It’s a bit more involved and this is more of a permanent installation.

With resistors, it is possible to have a similar dimming effect on LEDs of a simple 12v circuit but this takes some math, trial and error and some more soldering.
.

Yes, by "low power" I meant low light output. I want each light to be easily seen directly but to not illuminate the ceiling or connecting wires. Largely because the string of lights will be in a location with difficult access I definitely plan to do this in parallel if I do it at all. I know LEDs have a long expected life but if one fails in a series circuit the whole string will go out and it will be very difficult to find which one has failed. It is actually desirable if some are brighter than others as the whole idea is to simulate a night sky. The most desirable thing colorwise, will be for all or almost all to be white but a few red or blue will be ok.

I have looked and inquired at Home Depot about something like this but what they seem to have is either too bright and/or the lights are spaced too evenly and too close together. I want to located these in a random pattern, hung from the ceiling in my greenhouse room such that with the other lights turned off I will get the effect of being under a star-filled night sky. If the lights are evenly spaced the effect will be more like a car dealership.

How would you strip off the insulation for each connection?
Studio 588 currently offers more than 2200 different HD and QD quicksand videos and has supported production of well over 2400 video scenes and other projects by 13 different producers. Info may be found at:
http://studio588qs.com
http://quicksandland.com
http://psychicworldjungleland.com

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BogDog
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Re: Anyone Know About Basic Electronics?

Postby BogDog » Tue Dec 15, 2020 4:05 pm

I have used this resistor calculator to mount LEDs on drones. Dunno if it's useful here:

http://www.hebeiltd.com.cn/?p=zz.led.re ... calculator
"Life is tough. It's tougher if you're stupid." - John Wayne

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TK421
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Re: Anyone Know About Basic Electronics?

Postby TK421 » Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:26 am

Fred588 wrote:
TK421 wrote:
Fred588 wrote:
Duncan Edwards wrote:
Fred588 wrote:If anyone here i perhaps you can answer a few questions. These have to do with s fairly knowledgeable about some very basic electronics related to a project I have in mind. The project has nothing whatsoever to do with quicksand.

1. What is the LOWEST output LED readily available?

2. Is it practical to connect 40 or so LEDs in a simple parallel circuit with a 12 (or 5) volt DC power supply.

3. Is there an easy way to use an LED to connect the two wires of a DC circuit. I say easy because the project would require 40 to 50 such connections.

I will be happy to discuss what all this is for with anyone who wants to know but will leave it out here because I suspect few will want to know.


You can get very low power LED's. Are you talking about just low light output?

Yes, it's not unusual to string lots of low power LED together. Christmas tree lights for example.

Just physically connecting the wires? On that one I have to answer no if you are asking that question. For me it's easy.

Love to know more about what you are doing because I suspect you could buy whatever you are after already assembled. There's lots of that sort of thing out there.


OK, here's all I left out the first time. I want the light output to be such that if the light is located a foot or more below the ceiling, the eye will easily see the light but NOT the ceiling, and without adding a shade behind each light. The issue with connections is this: The wire itself would be either two separate strands or paired strands pulled apart for each light. Obviously these would be insulated wire so each connection would require the insulation to be removed from a short segment of each wire, for each light. I presume each LED would be soldered in place, so that is 80 wire stripings and 80 solderings to make 40 lights.

This device would be powered using a 5v or 12v DC power supply, such as comes with a USB disk drive.

The application is as follows:
One room of the house is what I call the greenhouse. It is actually a room with a dirt floor and ordinary frame room. It is 12 by 24 and one long wall is almost entirely glass. It has been used for five years for growing the plants that decorate the sets and a few other places during the summer. The ceiling is slopped from a height of about 8 feet to about 12. For the future I plan to place a small table with four chairs near the center. I will then be able to serve dinner to up to four people, who will be surrounded by plants. [No carnivorous plants though] The plan is to suspend the proposed lights from the ceiling, mostly over the center 12 feet of the room, with the lights arranged randomly. The hope is that if the greenhouse lights are then turned off except for something just above the table (as in many fine restaurants) the 40 LED will give the illusion of the whole thing being outdoors under the sky (but without any bugs).

And to borrow a quite from Paul Harvey of years past.... "And now you have,...... the rest of the story."

In effect it could be thought of as the JungleLand Bar and Grill, for real.


So there are a few ways you can tackle this.

Things you will need:
-LEDs
-2 conductor wire (CL2)
-Dimmable LED driver/transformer
- magnetic low voltage (MLV), electronic low voltage (ELV) or incandescent/halogen dimmer switch

*This will need AC current and a dimmer to operate so consult an electrician*


1st: LED. For a rule of thumb, most LEDs are going to be 12vDC but individually, you can find them in 3v, 5v or higher depending on the power supply you wish to use but because 12v power supplies are more commonly found and easily integrated into DMX, I tend to use 12v. I would assume you are strictly looking for white or clear LEDs. As a rule, Light emitting diodes, by themselves, are not dimmable. You will need a driver/transformer for that (more on that later).

You can certainly run them in series, parallel or series/parallel but the most consistent will be a series circuit because voltage will be distributed evenly across all diodes.

You can use 2 conductor wire 18-16 gauge (black would be ideal in this circumstance). A thing to note: these are still diodes so polarity matters. The LEDs should be marked negative to positive bias by either a red or black pigtail OR one tine will be longer than the other. They will be wired in this fashion.

Image

A thing to consider is amperage. It’s important to see what the draw will be before buying your transformer or you will have flicker but no worries, 40 LEDs shouldn’t consume too much. On the average, 3 LEDs draw about 20 milliAmps. These drivers are meant to push LED uplighting and cabinet lights of 100 or more LEDs so you will not need much.

For dimming any incandescent dimmer should work. This will wire directly to the LED driver. The LED driver is in charge of keeping the circuit stable even when AC current is dropped by the dimmer so the LEDs will not flicker.

It’s a bit more involved and this is more of a permanent installation.

With resistors, it is possible to have a similar dimming effect on LEDs of a simple 12v circuit but this takes some math, trial and error and some more soldering.
.

Yes, by "low power" I meant low light output. I want each light to be easily seen directly but to not illuminate the ceiling or connecting wires. Largely because the string of lights will be in a location with difficult access I definitely plan to do this in parallel if I do it at all. I know LEDs have a long expected life but if one fails in a series circuit the whole string will go out and it will be very difficult to find which one has failed. It is actually desirable if some are brighter than others as the whole idea is to simulate a night sky. The most desirable thing colorwise, will be for all or almost all to be white but a few red or blue will be ok.

I have looked and inquired at Home Depot about something like this but what they seem to have is either too bright and/or the lights are spaced too evenly and too close together. I want to located these in a random pattern, hung from the ceiling in my greenhouse room such that with the other lights turned off I will get the effect of being under a star-filled night sky. If the lights are evenly spaced the effect will be more like a car dealership.

How would you strip off the insulation for each connection?



If Series would create havoc for troubleshooting a dead Diode, then Parallel is feasible and probably the most straightforward solution as they are all sharing the same current independent of the other diodes. To be honest, because these will most likely dimmed at the controller, and they will be spaced away from each other, the likelihood of seeing any clear difference between output will be hard to discern. It tends to be more evident with LED light strips where multiple strip lengths are being used under cabinetry and you see output from one strip length brighter that the others but power supply, LED type, voltage and current drop across the diode all play a role in this.

To BogDogs point, voltage/current to a diode can be reduced via resistor of the right impedance. For instance, at 12v if you want to drop the voltage down to 5v, you will need 1 (sometimes a second one to squelch ground) 1000ohm resistors. This could also be used and implemented if you wish to have some LEDs slightly dimmer than the others. Also to Bogdogs point, an LED circuit requires a resistor in line to the anode. The ones I am point you in will already be wired with the resistor so you won’t have to fuss with it.

As for allocating the LEDs, you’re not going to get them at any Home Depot or Lowes, sadly (Radioshack, How I miss you already). You will need to source raw LEDs (I’ll post some links below), preferably with pigtails because those will be easier to manage and identify positive/negative bias. This will also save the time of soldering on a resistor for each LED. These will then need to be soldered and extended with thin gauge black 2 conductor wire to what ever length you desire (I am guessing your plan is to stagger the height of the LEDs as well) and to where it would then be then soldered into place to the main voltage “feed” at the ceiling. I’d say where possible, use some heat shrink tubing to make it all look pretty and keep the black theme consistent throughout all your connections.

The only two things Home Depot will be of use for is for the Voltage transformer/dimmer driver (Your location may vary) and the dimmer.

Stripping the 2 conductor wire can be done with any sort of decent set of wire strippers. I still use mine that I purchased from Radioshack a few years ago and they work flawlessly on small gauge wire. It also spares your hands and it’s pretty easy to get a rhythm going once you get the hang of it.


Here are some links:

LEDs: 5mm and 3mm (note: These are about as small as they get in a prewired version. For 1.8mm LEDs you will need to solder the anode, cathode and a resistor)

120PCS 6 Color Ultra Bright 12v Pre Wired LED Diodes Light -White Red Blue Green Yellow Warm White https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01NAHYUBD/re ... 2FbY42M8P6

KeeYees 60Pcs 3mm Pre Wired LED Diodes Light Ultra Bright -White Warm White Red Blue Green Yellow (10PCS X 6 Colors) + 60Pcs 3mm Plastic LED Holder LED Light Mounting Holders https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07M9YT8C8/re ... 2Fb5V3J0E5


Wire strippers:

Klein Tools 11061 Wire Stripper / Wire Cutter for Solid and Stranded AWG Wire, Heavy Duty Kleins are Self Adjusting https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00CXKOEQ6/re ... 2FbW5ZK0FY
“We have no food.
We have no jobs.
OUR PETS HEADS ARE FALLING OFF!”


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