An interesting thought for producers.

[pleaseletmejoin]

Drowning Doesn't look like drowning. From Reddit.com
http://mariovittone.com/2010/05/154/

[Duncan Edwards]

Helpful advice is always appreciated but I'm not sure which point you are trying to make. Are you just being informative about water safety? Or are you telling us that sinking doesn't look like the movies either?

I won't call any names but there is a qs producer resident expert on water safety issues.

Thanks -

[Robert]

What ever point he was trying to make that is a very good article and one every parent or swimming buddy should read.
It should also be pointed out if one is concerned ... that we give the models no more then 5-10 seconds to surface before we jump in and pull them up.

Robert

[Fred588]

Unless there are two of us, Duncan was referring to me when he mentioned a water safety expert among the producers. I have, in fact, met the researcher (F. Pia) mentioned in the article and have observed the same behavior described, more or less.

However, the relevance of all this here is pretty much missing, I think. When we produce a scene we are telling a story. The story may be dramatic, erotic, sensual, or comedic, but I don't think any of us has, as yet, attempted to make a documentary or instructional film. [Well, ok, I have shot some material on how to make a quicksand scene, but that's irrelevent too.] In telling a story of this kind there is little reason to make much attempt to be realistic, especially if that makes for a less interesting story. If we were to be truly realistic we could not, in fact, do submergence scenes at all.

Drowning Doesn't look like drowning. From Reddit.com
http://mariovittone.com/2010/05/154/

[pleaseletmejoin]

I dont know. thought maybe it would spawn some rhetoric on sinking scenes. Whatev.

[Fred588]

I dont know. thought maybe it would spawn some rhetoric on sinking scenes. Whatev.

Please don't take offense. When I suggested lack of relevance I really meant that I did not understand the connection to qs production. Maybe there is one and one that would make for a good discussion.

I think there IS a valid point to discuss, that perhaps is what you meant. That is, the realism or accuracy of the way a sinking scene is filmed. I will address that now.

I think it IS important to try to provide "realism" in a quicksand scene. I put quotes around the term, however, because by realism I mean adherence to what the viewer THINKS is realistic and not necessarily to what the laws of physics dictate.

[Nessie]

I never knew this. Excellent article for parents, lifeguards, swim instructors, and anybody at all who's around children and water.

Having attended three shoots for other producers and two that featured me, I'd say that the chances of anybody submerging unnoticed and calmly drowning as this article describes during a shoot is just about zero.

It's not a shoot if a camera operator isn't there. And if she doesn't come up, he's goin' in!

Is it relevant to recreational sinking?

It could be, if you've got a buddy system and at least one of the buddies is into some of the wilder varieties of deep sinking. Cannonballs, headfirsts, going wayyy deep under, mixing quicksand and non-simulated bondage, staying beneath the surface with breathing tubes...it could be relevant...so now you all know:

"Just 'cause I don't see a lot of wild panicky thrashing doesn't mean he can't be in trouble. He's been under there too long...I'm goin' in!"

I guess if I drown while I'm alone, that's gonna be the end of it. However, none of the above describes anything I do and I don't even tend to submerge on recreational sinkings.

It's kinda hard to drown when your head never goes in. And none of my bogs are exactly "suck ya down". I always seem to stop around chest-deep, no matter what.

Nessie

[Billie Bonce]

I think it IS important to try to provide "realism" in a quicksand scene. I put quotes around the term, however, because by realism I mean adherence to what the viewer THINKS is realistic and not necessarily to what the laws of physics dictate.

Good point, taking into account that in realistic quicksand scene nobody would drown in quicksand or clay pit.

But, in realistic quicksand scene somebody may drown in a pond with soft bottom. Such a scene, if realistic, would be of the genuinely hated type - a victim walks through a dirty and muddy water with some vegetation floating on the surface, then the victim either suddenly plunges in deep or just stops with a surprised look of the face, and begins slowly sink, then with no obvious reason begins to thrash about and scream. We don't see anything, we use to say that there's no quicksand at all, and this is just fake... But that's how it may look in real life. Here is an example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7hW3P6JvtE Don't expect much from this video, but read the comments.

[Fred588]

Here is another point regarding the realism issue in drowning and sinking.

The reason that people do not thrash about and yell for help in most cases of drowning is that they are not in control of their breathing. Even in a person who can swim, by the time they know they are in trouble they are struggling so hard to keep going that they cannot speak. Then, they suck in some water attempting to breathe and they begin to choke. By this point they are probably already under the surface. If they call for help at all it is by waving their arms. Sinking in mud would be different. In mud the sinking process is slow. The person would have more time to yell for help, at least for a while, even if somehow weighted down such that the added buoyancy of being in mud was insufficient to avoid submersion. They very likely would choke following submersion and this would probably result in a closed glottis, which means no burst of bubbles at the end. A sinking scene might attempt to show the final, gasping struggle as the surface closes over the mouth, or even the choke-inducing intake of mud to the mouth, but attempting to do so would be quite hazardous for the performer.

[Nessie]

but read the comments.

I did...thanks for reminding me why I've got commenting disabled on my own YouTube.

Nessie