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Re: An interesting thought for producers.

Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 6:06 am
by nachtjaeger
When I was "camera 2" for a couple shoot at Studio 588, I always held my breath whenever the model went under- I figured if I started to run out of air, something had to have gone wrong. In one scene (Nyssa Nevers in "Rope Trick") the model did a very drawn-out, slow submergence, went under, and stayed there. :shock: I was about a half-second from going in after Nyssa when she surfaced. She "wanted to make it look good." :? On set, Fred is 100% professional, and very safety conscious.

I also seem to recall hearing that Duncan and his cameraman had to go after Kristine after she managed to get herself all the way under some impossibly sticky mud. Not something likely to occur in real life.

Re: An interesting thought for producers.

Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 6:54 am
by Duncan Edwards
nachtjaeger wrote:I also seem to recall hearing that Duncan and his cameraman had to go after Kristine after she managed to get herself all the way under some impossibly sticky mud. Not something likely to occur in real life.


There have been a few close calls, or at least we thought they were, over the years. Yes, the most noteworthy and memorable was the aftermath of the Kristine white bra and panties scene. She went to come up but the stuff on top of her was like having had concrete poured over her. Droopy was right there with her and still unable to get her up. I was running the only camera and you can hear me utter a nasty expletive before flying past the lens and landing next to Droopy. Fortunately he had kept his head and excavated an opening over Kristine's face. She was laughing like a loon at the terror she had caused but it took some effort for us to get her out of there. Then it took more effort to get all three of us out of there. Really wicked spot. Never seen anything like it since.

Another such occasion was imagined on my part after Jenna West went under in the clay pit at Studio 588. I guess I was tired and when Jenna didn't pop right back up I gave the call for everyone to get her. As I recall Kristine and Robert were both right there in seconds to rescue a smiling Jenna from nothing more than my own imagination.

The clay was kind of thick the night we shot "Swamp Wraith" with Jessica Marsh and Sarai. By now we all knew what a proper submersion looked like without a second thought. This may have been Sarai's first submersion, I don't recall, but as she was going under I knew she was at a bad angle. Dave did too and we exchanged glances. I think I looked across the pit at Fred because he was catching it as well. It was interesting that all three of us registered a minor alarm without saying a word in the space of about a second. I had already laid my camera on the ground and was just about to move when Sarai came slowly back up. The nerve impulses to jump in were somewhere between my brain and my feet when I stopped them. Dave somehow could smell that and very shortly later told Sarai that she was just about half a second from having a lot of company. He was right.

Kristine and I swam against the current around the end of the levy in Chester once in order to avoid getting muddy again. It was a rough go and I was very happy to get a handful of rock at the end. Kristine has always made a point of having no great swimming ability and was next to me smiling through the whole thing.

Dave and I swam after my sandals that fell overboard while shooting at the MPV desert lake location. It was only about a hundred yards out and back but I got very tired. I don't know if it was dehydration or having not eaten or what but I could feel the energy level in my body going away like crazy. That's the biggest danger in swimming is feeling good when you begin and then suddenly when you feel like crap there's not a lot you can do about it. Dave was fine. He got the sandals and we turned back to the boat. Closer I got to it I started complaining about how tired I was. I was about to flip over on my back when Dave told me just to stand up. Water was about four feet deep where I was by then. Big laugh from Brittany and Tatiana in the boat.

Most of you have probably seen the video of Brittany becoming truly stuck up to her waist in real quicksand. She also did the same thing up to her knees in a prepared location at Studio 588. Getting her out was no easy task in either place.

As a result of this and a few other adventures when shooting I've never completely bought into the idea that sinking is without danger. I know that science keeps telling us that we have nothing to worry about and that quicksand is only the stuff of movies but I'm not buying it. In the wild and even in a prepared studio you are still submitting a human body to very imperfect and imprecise natural circumstances. Nothing is guaranteed so you have to be very careful. You get laboratory results only in a laboratory. 8-)

Re: An interesting thought for producers.

Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 5:01 pm
by PM2K
Just a follow up to the discussion...

Interesting how circumstances dictate one's reaction...

I've sunk myself many times over the years deliberately, as we all have, using a variety of natually occurring mud pits and such, some I've had to sculpt over time. I've been in quicksand as a kid... shallow patches along a creek bed me and the other kids were forbidden to play in... ;) Maybe as deep as mid-thigh on an eight year old. It was so loose, it only sucked a little on the legs. In any event, it was fun.

The only time I got into deep quicksand, it was unexpected and a little scary. Working for a mining company years ago, I crossed a wetland amd what I thought was a shallow creek running through it. It turned out to be about a foot of water over god knows how much quicksand. I sank waist deep in moments, and with the water lapping at my chest I lunged for the creek's bank, which was close by, and managed to get myself out. Freaked me out.

I have to agree with Duncan. The experts may dismiss quicksand as a mostly harmless thing, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't lose respect for it.

Re: An interesting thought for producers.

Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 12:48 am
by Nessie
PM2K wrote:The experts may dismiss quicksand as a mostly harmless thing, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't lose respect for it.


Well, there is one key word in your sentence...it's...

"Mostly".

My own take on the issue of real quicksand danger is that respect for the environment is necessary while paranoia isn't!

Nessie

Re: An interesting thought for producers.

Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 1:42 am
by jack c
I have never been in a situation where I have felt in total danger. I have been chest-deep in mud, clay, and sand. I guess it just has not been that overwhelming for me - always been able to work my way free relatively easily. I am not saying that there cannot be a sticky bog in which real peril may exist - just that I have not found one yet. I think there could be dangerous situations that I have simply not encountered in my limited experience. Be careful, all.

Re: An interesting thought for producers.

Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:09 am
by Nessie
jack c wrote:I think there could be dangerous situations that I have simply not encountered in my limited experience. Be careful, all.


The worst thing that ever happened to me at a quicksand pit was unexpected indeed...it was the poison sumac incident.

But...I still sink there!

And it's not actually the quicksand that caused me the problem, is it?

Nessie

Re: An interesting thought for producers.

Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 11:56 pm
by Mynock
I think the biggest danger isn't in drowning but not being able to extricate yourself fast enough. The closest I ever came to actually being in trouble was when I got chest deep in some REALLY thick clay at my quarry. It took 15 minutes of struggling to get to that depth but the better part of 2 hours to get out. In retrospect, if a sudden downpour had come along I might have been SOL as the settling pit is pretty much at the bottom of the quarry and collects all the rainwater.

Re: An interesting thought for producers.

Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 2:18 am
by bumberjack
This makes me wonder the effectiveness of a help signal.

The very first scene I helped shoot with Fred was Julie Simone's First Time. Prior to her attempting a submergence, Fred showed her how she should signal for help (clenched fist in the air), should she need it. This surprised me. I mean the pits are only so deep and, prior to going under, a model could ask for a hose to loosen the mud if need be. Fred even suggested HOW a model should submerge. If Julie stayed down for long enough, Fred told her that we'd go in after her.

Even in those conditions, a frightened model will panic and may altogether forget out a help signal.

I hope at least one of the crew members at any given shoot knows CPR.

Re: An interesting thought for producers.

Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 3:19 am
by Duncan Edwards
bumberjack wrote:This makes me wonder the effectiveness of a help signal.

The very first scene I helped shoot with Fred was Julie Simone's First Time. Prior to her attempting a submergence, Fred showed her how she should signal for help (clenched fist in the air), should she need it. This surprised me. I mean the pits are only so deep and, prior to going under, a model could ask for a hose to loosen the mud if need be. Fred even suggested HOW a model should submerge. If Julie stayed down for long enough, Fred told her that we'd go in after her.

Even in those conditions, a frightened model will panic and may altogether forget out a help signal.

I hope at least one of the crew members at any given shoot knows CPR.


The help signal was something we initiated as a just-in-case thing. Holding hands straight up and waving for help might be mistaken for part of the scene. A raised fist stands out and gets attention. Yes, a model, or crew, might panic and blow it but you have to start somewhere. You just don't know what you don't know could go wrong.

Fred is a swimming instructor who teaches water safety so he knows CPR as part of his job. I get recertified at work every year.

As far as I know the worst thing to happen is more likely trips and stumbles around the sets and hiking to wild locations. Nessie and I have both had our share of those as well as respective encounters with poison sumac and yellow jackets. Hopefully that is as bad as things will ever be. 8-)

Re: An interesting thought for producers.

Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 5:04 am
by Nessie
Duncan Edwards wrote:Nessie and I have both had our share of those as well as respective encounters with poison sumac and yellow jackets. Hopefully that is as bad as things will ever be. 8-)


What the heck. I'll lay out the actual dangers I have faced.

What has not come remotely close to happening in any location at all, anywhere, natural or man-made:

Being sssssucked under and drowning.

What has never happened at any natural outdoor mudpit although you'd think it should have by now:

Any serious injuries from falling or tripping in all those places full of tall weeds without paths anywhere. I did gash my toe once on an under-mud root on one of my first sinking attempts, but I did not require medical attention.

Non-deadly discomforts:

Stinging nettle, poison sumac (the WORST!), and many, many nibbles and chomps by various insects. Sunburn.

I have never had an encounter with any intruder while in the mud. I've never had a run-in with the cops or park patrols. I see people on the way to and from the mudpits, but so far they have all been friendly.

I would pick the number one most serious potential danger that I face as being (drum roll):

Hypothermia.

I go from thaw 'til freeze. I've got cold-weather gear and as long as I use it properly, nothing ever has happened and it's actually very comfortable. I never feel like I will get into any trouble either.

But...ya know...when there's a thin layer of ice on the mud, ya know that this is cold.

Nessie