Quicksand Fans

Need some help settling an arguement, has to do with certain "current events" which I won't get into unless the Mods say it's ok (although anyone who watches the news can probably guess ). Anyway here goes:

In a movie/video production that includes/depicts the use of a firearm, is it considered acceptable practice to use an actual, real firearm capable of chambering and firing live ammo? If so, would it also be acceptable for persons involved in the production to train on set with live rounds before using the firearm to shoot a scene?

Common sense tells me the answer to both of these questions should be an emphatic "Fuck no! Are you fucking insane?!" But one can never underestimate the power of idiots.

Mynock wrote:Need some help settling an arguement, has to do with certain "current events" which I won't get into unless the Mods say it's ok (although anyone who watches the news can probably guess ). Anyway here goes:

In a movie/video production that includes/depicts the use of a firearm, is it considered acceptable practice to use an actual, real firearm capable of chambering and firing live ammo? If so, would it also be acceptable for persons involved in the production to train on set with live rounds before using the firearm to shoot a scene?

Common sense tells me the answer to both of these questions should be an emphatic "Fuck no! Are you fucking insane?!" But one can never underestimate the power of idiots.

The fact that the gun(s) in question was used for recreational (live round) shooting on or near the set was a huge, unprofessional no no. That activity introduced live rounds to the environment. Take that away, and there's no tragedy.

I think they use actual weapons (shooting blanks) for the authenticity of the muzzle flash. The sound is mostly irrelevant. It's usually dubbed over in post production.

Mynock wrote:Need some help settling an arguement, has to do with certain "current events" which I won't get into unless the Mods say it's ok (although anyone who watches the news can probably guess ). Anyway here goes:

In a movie/video production that includes/depicts the use of a firearm, is it considered acceptable practice to use an actual, real firearm capable of chambering and firing live ammo? If so, would it also be acceptable for persons involved in the production to train on set with live rounds before using the firearm to shoot a scene?

Common sense tells me the answer to both of these questions should be an emphatic "Fuck no! Are you fucking insane?!" But one can never underestimate the power of idiots.

I can only answer for myself but my answer would probably be a bit more explosive (sic) than Dave's. I expect I irritate some people with this but my Studio has a strict policy of no real firearms even on the property, with th sole exception that is someone must carry it with them while travelling, it must be stored in the locked trunk of their car at all times. The reason for this is not that I am anti gun. It is because we use somewhat realistic prop weapons sometimes with models and/or crew who would not know a real firearm from a blue jay.

Hollywood allows the use of actual firearms, and there have been a couple of actual disasters as a result.

It's one of those things that should be able to be done safely, if all the rules are followed, but since it's people who are expected to follow the rules, mistakes get made. Some willfully.

Still, it really is far less dangerous than other things we're allowed to do and don't think twice about. Like putting gasoline in a vehicle. Or driving. Or using a portable communication device while walking. Or swimming. Or smoking. Or drinking alcohol. Or using bleach to clean.

As a firearms enthusiast and a filmmaker, I would never use my firearms as props, nor allow them to be used by others. I would (and have) participate in productions that used actual firearms, but I reserve the right to walk off set if I'm not confident in the people and procedures.

I get it. Prop guns are expensive. Especially on the indie level, that cost can be the difference between a film getting made or not getting made. It's something that can be done safely, and has been done safely myriad times in myriad films and TV shows.

You ever play RPGs? Everything is about the modifiers. Having one beer with dinner before driving home only increases your chance of an accident by 2%. Tightening up your shoelaces increases your walking-without-tripping success rate by 5%. In this particular example, not using functional firearms will reduce your "someone gets shot" statistic by 75%. (People get shot, and killed, with blanks. It's just harder to do.) Maybe it was a low stat to begin with, but that's an easy improvement to buy.

Chimerix wrote: (People get shot, and killed, with blanks. It's just harder to do.)

Not for this guy - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon-Erik_Hexum

I always remembered this because I was attending Michigan State (he was a Spartan) when it happened.

We're all familiar with the stuff that comes about from being careless on the set and tragedies like Brandon Lee and Alec Baldwin's movie. Back in the early years of movie production, sharpshooters were employed to produce actual bullet results. When John Wayne was making Saturday matinee stuff for Monarch studios he had only one guy he trusted. I've seen pictures of him and he looks like some old derelict but apparently he could shoot better than anyone. Occasionally you have to have live rounds to get some semi-auto weapons to fire or you really are aiming at a target. If someone hands me a firearm on set I'm going to treat it like it's loaded even if the slide is back and the clip is out. You have to make sure everyone else knows this before they get there. You wouldn't expect them to learn how to swim or drive on set.

Duncan Edwards wrote:... even if the slide is back and the clip is out.

Magazine.

Mynock wrote:Need some help settling an arguement, has to do with certain "current events" which I won't get into unless the Mods say it's ok (although anyone who watches the news can probably guess ). Anyway here goes:

In a movie/video production that includes/depicts the use of a firearm, is it considered acceptable practice to use an actual, real firearm capable of chambering and firing live ammo? If so, would it also be acceptable for persons involved in the production to train on set with live rounds before using the firearm to shoot a scene?

Common sense tells me the answer to both of these questions should be an emphatic "Fuck no! Are you fucking insane?!" But one can never underestimate the power of idiots.

The chambering of a live round is a must unless you’re using a demilled firearm as nonfunctional prop (display only). Otherwise you can’t chamber blanks (unless using a modified chamber that will not permit the chambering of a live round). CGI is good but to get an accurate blowback, recoil, proper cycling and muzzle flash of a firearm is still very much difficult to replicate in live action filming without the use of blanks. That’s why they have weapons masters. The issue is if at any point of the chain of command, someone is lax on firearms safety, the whole set is at risk. The minute live ammo was introduced to the set, the recipe for disaster was already in motion. This is why when I do firearms safety training, there is NO live ammunition in the classroom ever and those who are already licensed to carry must lock their firearms and any spare mags away. No exceptions.

Having said that, I would say all live action firearms training should be taking place NO WHERE near a set. A week or so before production start, do a training then under the supervision of a licensed firearms instructor/RSO at another location away from the set but never the set itself. Yes, it’s sounds costly, but considering certain events, I’d say it’s worth mitigating the risks

Chimerix wrote:

Duncan Edwards wrote:... even if the slide is back and the clip is out.

Magazine.

I just type what my fingers say.

Thanks to all for the insight. I was being argued with that the person in question was just an actor and not responsible for any accidental discharges.

But since said actor was also the movie's producer, who was responsible for hiring a totally unprofessional shithead and allowed live fire gun play on the movie set, he's definitely cuplable.