The Wreck Of The Titan (How Not To Build A Submarine)

[Mynock]

Very good video. 20 year Veteran USN Submarinar's perspective on what is almost assuredly a tragedy now. Warning: Contains staggering, mind boggling levels of stupidity on the part of the company and it's CEO (who at least had the courtesy to kill himself along with his customers).

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4dka29FSZac

[OBI-wan]

Talk about signing your life away.

[H8ms2014]

And the owner of the company had last minute "business" they had to attend to...

[EVysther]

I had heard about this "tour" months before the tragedy. It sounded like a bad idea all around.

One, why would you even WANT to see this? It's a cemetery. Let them rest.

Two, the water pressure at that depth is *horrific*...and the excretion on a small submersible like that? Nope.

Three, it's been remarked that we know more about the reaches of deep space than we do the depths of the ocean floor, and I concur....besides that, we haven't a clue what animals may live at that depth. They could be very large. And very hungry.

My sympathies to the families of those lost. No matter what we may think of all this, those folks' grief is very real.

[Mynock]

For the record, I'm not opposed to adventure tourism. Even after this happened if I had opportunity to go down and see Titanic I'd do it in a heartbeat. But I'd do it in a certified Sub with professionals running the show, not with some half assed carnival attraction like Ocean Gate.

[BogDog]

That video showing assembly of the bond joints convinced me that the failure point was between the carbon fiber tube and one of the end domes. The chances of trapped are bubbles is very great. I think I would have done it in a vacuum myself. Plus the lip of the titanium dome that the carbon tube fits over was half the size or less of that I would feel comfortable with. I'd want to support the end of the tube from compression forces more to reduce sheer forces on the butt glue joints.

Like another engineer said, it was not a matter of if it would fail but rather when.



At least they didn't feel a thing. When the USS Thresher nuclear sub sank and imploded at a lesser depth (1/2 mile) they calculated that the walls collapsed inward at 1500mph or 2200 feet per second. With the 20-foot diameter Thresher that collapse took only 1-millisecond (1/1000 of a second) and superheated the air briefly to the temperature of the surface of the sun, around 50,000°F. as all hydrocarbons in the air and around ignite, like the piston of a diesel engine. The crew were pulverized and turned to ashes faster than it takes for you to complete a sneeze.

It takes at least 25 milliseconds for nerve signals to travel from your eyes, ears or your sense of touch to your brain, and as much as 150 milliseconds (1/6th of a second) for your brain to register and recognize it. In other words, the Thresher crew were gone before they knew it. Just...BANG!


That's pretty much what they experienced on the Titan. They may have heard cracking, but not for long if so. Carbon fiber doesn't deform...it just catastrophically breaks and often without warning.

RIP

[TK421]

That video showing assembly of the bond joints convinced me that the failure point was between the carbon fiber tube and one of the end domes. The chances of trapped are bubbles is very great. I think I would have done it in a vacuum myself. Plus the lip of the titanium dome that the carbon tube fits over was half the size or less of that I would feel comfortable with. I'd want to support the end of the tube from compression forces more to reduce sheer forces on the butt glue joints.

Like another engineer said, it was not a matter of if it would fail but rather when.

The issue is with this particular DSV, there was no record of NDTs or Non destructive testing done to assess the fail rate of this vehicle. Also, this wasn’t it’s first dive. Materials that undergo that level of compression and decompression and temperature variations are subject to failure. As you said, it is not a matter of IF but WHEN. As for environmental controls, and general electronics, I wouldn’t trust it for a simple surface dive. For instance, the new standard issue HUD based fighter’s helmet for the new 4th generation fighter jets run in excess of 400K each and the reason is these things are torture tested to failure and avionics do not go through half of the stresses deep sea submersibles encounter. The fact that almost no redundancy was factored into the planning and development of this craft is dangerously stupid.

[TK421]

For the record, I'm not opposed to adventure tourism. Even after this happened if I had opportunity to go down and see Titanic I'd do it in a heartbeat. But I'd do it in a certified Sub with professionals running the show, not with some half assed carnival attraction like Ocean Gate.

My problem is their abilities in bypassing of regulations that typically would be applied to most commercial entities. Granted this took place in international waters and they still had to register the support vessel, but the fact that they can place human lives into a capsule to be taken into pressure levels beyond the capacity of most nuclear powered subs within our own naval fleet without being asked any questions is a bit of a shock.

I’m all for responsible deep sea exploration. From what I have been learning from Ocean Gate is everything they have been doing was anything but responsible. For instance: the first handful of crewed dives into The Challenger Deep all were met with complications mid dive that forced the crew to resurface, the first instance being a crack in the outer glass due to temperature variations. It’s all fun and games until you realize that you are literally at the mercy of your environment.

[Mynock]

My problem is their abilities in bypassing of regulations that typically would be applied to most commercial entities.

The problem is a Submerisble isn't considered a boat, a ship or a true submarine. It's just cargo until you transport it out into international waters and drop it over the side. I think it's kind of like Ultra Lights or kit planes too in that if labeled "experimental" there's no certification or liscensing needed.

[TK421]

My problem is their abilities in bypassing of regulations that typically would be applied to most commercial entities.

The problem is a Submerisble isn't considered a boat, a ship or a true submarine. It's just cargo until you transport it out into international waters and drop it over the side. I think it's kind of like Ultra Lights or kit planes too in that if labeled "experimental" there's no certification or liscensing needed.

Which goes back to the dangers of the new age of “enterprise tourism”. We got a billionaire talking about sending people to Mars and another sending people to oceanic depths in an untested carbon fiber cigar tube. It sucks because it’s going to force governments to put these instances under scrutiny which can make things cost prohibitive for true scientists who want to experiment on various designs