Madchen in Moor....video.....(female)

[Choco25]

here's the English Wikipedia article for those who wants to know more about Moora and can't speak German

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girl_of_the_Uchter_Moor

Ok, the documentary tires to determine how she died. Since the scientists found no grave goods, which has been typical for burials in Bronze Age in northern Europe, it remains unclear what happened. Furthermore, even criminals, who were sentenced to death, had those grave goods. They were killed and later buried in the marshlands.

A possible solution seems to be that Moora had an accident after the rain season in autumn made the marshlands very dangerous. The test with the stunt woman shall show whether it is possible to drown in a bog. While the trained woman had a chance to escape, they suspect that Moora was to weak to free herself due to the bad health conditions and malnutrition which were common during that time.

[rickyj]

Most interesting article...I had no idea this was an actual skeleton they found...I thought they were just finding bones here and there over the decades and finally "got around" to trying to figure out how people got there. I didn't know this was one person and had no idea the body was that old. I figured maybe it got there maybe 50 or 100 yrs ago, but obviously they figured out otherwise. I wonder how someone finally discovered it like 3000 years later (probably playing around in the mud no doubt).
Since the article says she had skull fractures and said she was probably carrying heavy stuff accross the marsh (how would they know that though), they figure it was an accident. They said her leg bones were all damaged from a tumor and bad nutrition, which would explain how she mighthave gotten stuck. The only other explanation is she committed suicide, which is plausable given her health problems and who knows what else. But one huge bug in the accident thoery is they said she was naked, which makes no sense for the accident theory. She would only be naked if someone killed her and threw her in there. She obviously otherwise would have clothes on, even if she committed suicide. Why would she be carrying jugs accross a pond naked? I am inclined to believe someone raped her(taking advantage of her weaknesses), and killed her, then disposed of the body there. Factor in her young age, and the fact she had physical handicaps, which would make it very easy for someone to attack her. I also doubt she died of natural causes and was "buried" in that fashion. Someone must have put her there after she was dead.

[BogDog]

From what I gathered, the broken skull was postmortem, possibly damages by the peat-harvesting machine seen in the opening of the video.

[rickyj]

Hmmm..the article says the skull fractures were healed...not trying to one-up you, but obviously she either was beaten or suffered some kind of accident when she was younger, because they would not have healed if they had happened at the time of her death or from a machine hitting her dead body much much later. Kind of feel sorry for her..she must have been totally abused growing up, plus they said she was sick all the time and deformed...now why would they make someone like that carry heavy loads accross a marsh and stuff? It just gives you an idea of how rough and barbaric it probably was back then.
Since she was naked and they said they found no clothes nearby, you have got to assume this was a rape/murder/hide-the-body sort of thing. Whatever a-hole who did this probably already knew her, must have known the area and that it has a bog he could dispose of her in, and he might have been the one who beat her over the head and gave her the skull fractures when she was younger, who knows. He prob. hid behind a bush or something and waited for her come by, then jumped out and attacked her, murdered her somehow and then pushed her body down in the crap as far as he could, then scooped up her clothes and any other evidence, and hid it somewhere or "took it home" and burned it or something. If I has been there and caught that dude, That re-enactment experiment they did later of that meathead girl in that mudpit instead would have been a re-enactment of the world's biggest beatdown ever.
The only other possible explanation, and this albeit being VERY remote, is that this girl had and/or developed quicksand fetish from all those walks through that marsh, and she might have taken her clothes off and "experimented" shall we say, and went too far (literally) and couldn't get out. Still though, they would have found clothes nearby which they never did, but after all those years any clothes or evidence could easily have gotten buried, or lost, or dug up and thrown somwhere by machines they used, or they could have just decayed.
Getting back to the mud-pit re-enactment, I really doubt any human has ever actually died in the QPV style in quicksand...I have never heard of any documented case of that happening ever. People drowned certainly in watery quicksand because they didnt know how to swim or panicked, but I mean, c'mon, where on earth are you going to find mud that thick other than Studio 588 or Camp MPV or Trollwood, and someone dumb enough to go onto it and just happen to not be able to get out. Plus, the laws of bouyancy I believe would not even allow a person to get fully sumberged in something that thick. I contend that no human has ever died in that fashion. Perhaps you know of a documented case but I don't.
On a side note I got a pair of shoes that have been buried in about 3 feet of mud now for the last 10 years...I was at a park and my dog ran off, and she ran onto this cliff, and I had to go through some mud to get her. I got the dog, but I could not pull my legs out (because my shoes are so big) so I had to pull my feet out and ditched the shoes. They're more than likely still there, and 10,000 years from now some alien archeologist is going to find those shoes, assume my name was Dr. Scholl(I had shoe inserts in there), spend 3 weeks looking for my body which they won't find, then send the shoes to some museum of ancient cultures from the 21st century. I think they were black Reeboks but I can't remember.

[BogDog]

Hmmm..the article says the skull fractures were healed...not trying to one-up you, but obviously she either was beaten or suffered some kind of accident when she was younger, because they would not have healed if they had happened at the time of her death or from a machine hitting her dead body much much later.

I was referring to the condition of the skull when discovered, not signs of old wounds on the remains.

Her skull was not found intact. The description said the discovery included "The remains include vertebrae, hair and skull pieces." That's all. I wasn't really interested in her past health history. My assumption is that perhaps the harvesting machine shattered the skull.

[Billie Bonce]

Since she was naked and they said they found no clothes nearby, you have got to assume this was a rape/murder/hide-the-body sort of thing

I believe you are thinking in modern terms which are not applicable to the times when the event did happen. Rape? Was it even possible then? Could be, it was a great honor for a woman of poor health. Murder? Could be, but who and why would bother to hide the body? Naked? But it's a Christian thing against nudity. She could be naked simply because it was a hot day.

Actually, those people who live in bogs time to time drown there, even now. It could be an accident, why not? Could be anything else, too.

[rickyj]

Sort of beating this one down into the ground a bit (pun intended) but I will respond to your post... I just don't buy it as an accident. Even if it was a hot day, you have got to figure she would at least have her privates covered. I just don't buy a woman that age walking around naked, and I doubt it was even allowed by custom back then just like it isn't today. And what do you mean by a "great honor" to be raped back then? Ummm.. rape is not considered a great honor I would think. And of course, if someone raped, they wouldn't want to get caught right? So of course they would hide the body and dispose of the evidence, because if they got caught, they'd probably be put to death. If he didn't hide the body, it could have been traced back to him, by, say his footprints or something else he dropped, etc...
They also found no evidence of clothes anywhere, and we know it was not a natural burial because the custom was to cremate back then, and even if she was buried, they would never do it that way. No way was this an accident. Unless it was done out of a fetish thing gone too far, but still, cloth remnants would have been found at least near the body if that was the case.
I still contend people just don't die in mudpits(except at Camp MPV or Studio 588). Drown certainly, but whoever did this probably knew this woman carried stuff accross that marsh, he prob. knew the area well, knew there was deep mud there, and figured it was a good place to attack and quickly hide the body. The locals probably searched for her few a few days, but they'd never dig around in the mud underwater. They probably figured she got lost and just got tired and died or something, because they already obviously knew she had major health problems, which once again gets back to the question why they would make her do manual labor in that condition.
Thanks for reading and no animosity intended obviously...just gotta look at the evidence. They said it was the "Greatest discovery" in something like 40 years in Europe. The re-enactment mud pit was ridiculous...methinks that was some guys who used this case as an excuse to watch that woman re-enact it (they seemed plenty excited watching her struggle in that pit in the video---maybe they should get on the forum here...)

[BogDog]

Perhaps he was swimming or even trying to bathe when this happened. Who knows? We certainly never will.

I'm done here. See you all in another thread!

[Billie Bonce]

Even if it was a hot day, you have got to figure she would at least have her privates covered. I just don't buy a woman that age walking around naked, and I doubt it was even allowed by custom back then just like it isn't today.

Do you really believe in those jungle girls wearing bikinis? Real jungle girls don't wear anything like that. They do go naked. And they have no intention to cover their private parts. If they want to cover something, they would probably put on a sort of loose overall which would not necessary cover their breasts.

Pagan people spent a lot of time naked. They slept naked. They bathed naked. They had rituals when they were naked. The witchery was connected with nudity. Even recently some women in remote villages practiced such rituals, like, she has to sneak out of her house at sunrise totally naked, to find a certain flower, to piss on it, etc...

And what do you mean by a "great honor" to be raped back then?

A Man grants a Women with his precious semen, thus giving her a chance to continue the race

I still contend people just don't die in mudpits

People die in bogs. They drown there. In the process of hunting or picking berries. Some of them - because they are drunk. Others - because they are careless. Or both.

it was a good place to attack and quickly hide the body

Maybe. Why not? Could be, she owed them money. Or she was a witch and her witchery somehow brought them harm

[rickyj]

I'm obviously not an expert on what people wore back then, but you just got to figure that they wore some kind of cloths if not all-out garb. It wasn't a million years ago or something. In the mock-documentary the people they show are all wearing robes or clothes, "Moora" is shown wearing clothes, and the article says the body was "naked when it was disposed of"; with no evidence of clothes or jewelry (so we can assume they even wore jewelry back then), so even the author of the article believes she was dead even before being put there. It's highly unlikely she was doing a pagan ritual or something there. A lot more likely someone attacked and killed her and stuck her body there.
I am not sure about wheter your are joking or not about the raping "being an honorable thing." Then again, I am no historical expert. I never took any history classes in college (because I didn't have to).
Still, I don't buy the accident theory. I also don't believe lots of people die in mud pits other than drowning from not knowing how to swim. I would guess it has never happened ever to a human. Not in the pure sort of QPV style.