Dear Producers: The sudden submersion... not a fan

[BogDog]

I have to confess that the clay pit(s) used by Archenemys.com are exactly what I would be looking for, a thick, sticky, GRIPPY medium that supports their weight at first, but slowly yields as they struggle in it. A shame they are more interested in footwear over there.

Their clay is perfect. I assume the Devil is in the works here as to acquiring enough of the stuff in the right consistency, in sufficient quantity, and CHEAP enough to be a practical purchase, not counting having to transport the goo (or powder - just add water!). it looks like the arch-guys themselves were sneaking into some sort of construction site for their shoots.


I confess that I never enjoy any gooey-mud type of video clip where the model plunges almost waist deep immediately, and this has kept me away from purchasing any full-length videos whose clips I have viewed in the last...well jeez, at least the last decade. For me, buying a video with women plunging that deep so quickly is like buying a cheeseburger and just getting the bun and cheese. Where's the "beef" I treasure so much?

I miss the days of Mina, Skylar and the other ladies getting "stuck" and sinking slowly into (man-made) quicksand. Still not totally believable, but more enjoyable to me than the standard fast sink-type of shoots created today, and more in my field of interest. I know the latter matters little to people who prefer fullisubmergence or even grim endings and don't want to waste time slowwwwlllyyyy sinking to their favorite depths


My faves were and still are older videos like "Skylar Safari" and it's peers, plus some vids by another producer titled "The Run", The Trap" and "Jana Dreams". The last three remain my all time favorites, perhaps because of the settings, or highly believable acting in her struggles to get free, or what-I-don't-know. I just love 'em.


In a nutshell... I grew up exposed to sticky, clinging "Hollywood" and "comic book" quicksand, that's what caught my eye, and that's the only thing that gets my gears turning today. I suffered a big fantasy-crash the first times I read "The Quicksand page" and learned the real-world truth about the stuff. What a bummer that was. The hell with real quicksand pits....I'm going to keep thinking of them as sandy, sticky tar-pits.


I wonder how many other people feel likewise?

[here]

Hello everybody,
First time making a comment, I hope I'm not to late making a coment on this.... thread, I beleive it's called.

Anyway I'm a fan of the slow sink, like everyone I like variety also. The Quicksand Terror DVD has been mentioned, one of my favourites because of the walking onto the quicksand then it giving way under their feet. Bit of a foot fetish, high heels actualy, especialy boots. I purchased "Boots and Sand" with Pamela Rose, even though she didn't get deep it was, to me, very erotic(should have been longer though! haha). I'm not really into submersions, maybe the occasional bady that deserved it! haha. Generally though I find it more of a turn on to see them left struggling or be rescued with maybe a mishap or two, then they're ready to be caught again! haha

Now for my thinking on slow sinking techniques, one I'd like to try but haven't because I've no lady friends that would like to play in deep quicksand/mud is:-

You've got a hole, fill it with a clay mixture,not sure on measurements you'd need to experiment but say to 600mm(2 foot)from the top.

In the middle of this put something resembling an egg ring, say 1 metre(3 and 1/3 foot) in diameter or so and 300mm(1 foot) high.

On the outside of this, fill up with sand until level with the top of the egg ring, then fill the middle of the egg ring with more of the clay mixture until level with the top. Then remove the egg ring.

Over the top of this put another 300mm (1foot)more of sand.

I believe this type of idea would give the model/s more time to walk out onto the quicksand looking all cute and innocent before the ground starts to give way slowly. All kinds of scenes pop into my head to do, as I'd imagine all of you, haha.
One thing I will say though is if someone was to try and rescue them they could walk out onto the quicksand with it looking quite stable until they tried to pull the other person out then the ground would give out under them in a realistic way I believe. No trying to slide in from the side and trying to make it look as real as possible.

To re-use the pit you may only have to top up the sand, a bit of sand through the clay shouldn't matter. But if you had to do the top layers again and you have access to a back-hoe or something you could scrap the top off and re-use it, maybe you might have to add some more sand if it's a bit to clayey(bad spelling I know but I think you get the picture). Another thing that I learnt when I was a brickies labourer is that a sand pile left uncovered in the weather will leach the clay content out, Yes you do need some clay content to get nice plasticy mortar. So the sand could be left out if to much clay content in it then re-used.

Anyway just a thought, maybe I'll try myself one day if I meet the right person. Yes, I've played around in swamps and mud but never with a lady as obsessed as me.

Take it easy all and have a good one.

Terry

[Fred588]

Allow me to say that I highly encourage people to think about how to do stuff like this. Having a good deal of experience in building pits I will reply based on what I have learned.

First, it took me a while to figure out what you meant by an "egg ring." It would appear that Australian chickens are a good deal larger than those we have here (lol). An idea for how to do something should be followed up by two forms of experimentation. First, if possible, a thought-experiment in which you try to envision how things will actually behave. In other words, applying the principles of, in this case, physics to the proposed solution. Second, or first if the thought experiment isn't practical, an actual experiment. In this case, while a full-scale experiment would be complicated and expensive you could do something on a much smaller scale.

Based both on my own thought-experiment for your idea and on actual experience with similar materials, my opinion of the result is that the sand will immediately sink into the clay, lowering the depth of the clay by an equivalent amount. This is because the specific gravity of sand is higher than that of a suspension of clay. Thus, the method will be a failure. On the other hand, if a material resembling sand (small grains) was available that had a specific gravity lighter than wet clay could be obtained then the method has a chance to work. For filming, obviously, the material would have to be of a color the viewer would accept. To be tolerated by the performers it would have to not have sharp edges or be too gritty. To be safe it would have to be an inert material and not produce bad odors. To be economical it would have to not waterlog or otherwise decay when wet.

Hello everybody,
First time making a comment, I hope I'm not to late making a coment on this.... thread, I beleive it's called.

Anyway I'm a fan of the slow sink, like everyone I like variety also. The Quicksand Terror DVD has been mentioned, one of my favourites because of the walking onto the quicksand then it giving way under their feet. Bit of a foot fetish, high heels actualy, especialy boots. I purchased "Boots and Sand" with Pamela Rose, even though she didn't get deep it was, to me, very erotic(should have been longer though! haha). I'm not really into submersions, maybe the occasional bady that deserved it! haha. Generally though I find it more of a turn on to see them left struggling or be rescued with maybe a mishap or two, then they're ready to be caught again! haha

Now for my thinking on slow sinking techniques, one I'd like to try but haven't because I've no lady friends that would like to play in deep quicksand/mud is:-

You've got a hole, fill it with a clay mixture,not sure on measurements you'd need to experiment but say to 600mm(2 foot)from the top.

In the middle of this put something resembling an egg ring, say 1 metre(3 and 1/3 foot) in diameter or so and 300mm(1 foot) high.

On the outside of this, fill up with sand until level with the top of the egg ring, then fill the middle of the egg ring with more of the clay mixture until level with the top. Then remove the egg ring.

Over the top of this put another 300mm (1foot)more of sand.

I believe this type of idea would give the model/s more time to walk out onto the quicksand looking all cute and innocent before the ground starts to give way slowly. All kinds of scenes pop into my head to do, as I'd imagine all of you, haha.
One thing I will say though is if someone was to try and rescue them they could walk out onto the quicksand with it looking quite stable until they tried to pull the other person out then the ground would give out under them in a realistic way I believe. No trying to slide in from the side and trying to make it look as real as possible.

To re-use the pit you may only have to top up the sand, a bit of sand through the clay shouldn't matter. But if you had to do the top layers again and you have access to a back-hoe or something you could scrap the top off and re-use it, maybe you might have to add some more sand if it's a bit to clayey(bad spelling I know but I think you get the picture). Another thing that I learnt when I was a brickies labourer is that a sand pile left uncovered in the weather will leach the clay content out, Yes you do need some clay content to get nice plasticy mortar. So the sand could be left out if to much clay content in it then re-used.

Anyway just a thought, maybe I'll try myself one day if I meet the right person. Yes, I've played around in swamps and mud but never with a lady as obsessed as me.

Take it easy all and have a good one.

Terry

[here]

Hello Fred588,

Thank you for replying with such good advice, the specific gravity thing never even entered my mind, was just thinking the sand would sit on top of the clay. You have saved me much disappointment and money, thank you.
I only thought of it by what I'd noticed making roads over top soil, which sometimes can get pretty boggy, the thicker the road base is the more you disperse the weight over a larger area so the vehicle wont get bogged, that is what I was thinking the sand would do. But now you mention the specific gravity problem it makes me think how the soft ground will push out the side of the road base, after some time though, and you need to put more road base down.
Also on building sites when you get a wet spot where you need to get a wheel barrow through, normally a quick couple of shovel fulls of sand(unless there's some gravel around) and away you go, dosn't last for ever but you keep the job going.
I've never even tried to find a price on what cork is to buy, expensive I'd imagine, have you ever tried using cork over suspension clay? Also, if I could get some more advice, what does cork weather like?
Oh, and about the chooks, mate, the chooks here are that big they'll eat a dog, haha, bloody smart arse! Dry humour, I love it, haha.

Anyway, thank you once again for sharing your knowledge, much appreciated.

Terry

[Fred588]

I have sent you an email (through the forum system) in reply.

Hello Fred588,

Thank you for replying with such good advice, the specific gravity thing never even entered my mind, was just thinking the sand would sit on top of the clay. You have saved me much disappointment and money, thank you.
I only thought of it by what I'd noticed making roads over top soil, which sometimes can get pretty boggy, the thicker the road base is the more you disperse the weight over a larger area so the vehicle wont get bogged, that is what I was thinking the sand would do. But now you mention the specific gravity problem it makes me think how the soft ground will push out the side of the road base, after some time though, and you need to put more road base down.
Also on building sites when you get a wet spot where you need to get a wheel barrow through, normally a quick couple of shovel fulls of sand(unless there's some gravel around) and away you go, dosn't last for ever but you keep the job going.
I've never even tried to find a price on what cork is to buy, expensive I'd imagine, have you ever tried using cork over suspension clay? Also, if I could get some more advice, what does cork weather like?
Oh, and about the chooks, mate, the chooks here are that big they'll eat a dog, haha, bloody smart arse! Dry humour, I love it, haha.

Anyway, thank you once again for sharing your knowledge, much appreciated.

Terry