Do you think our interest is Misogynistic?

[dlodoski]

.....But for some reason, when it's a sex kind of thing, people want to attach grand significance to it. "I think about women in quicksand because...I must secretly hate them! Subconsciously, I must be wishing some kind of discomfort or harm on them!"

Have you harmed anyone?

If the answer is yes, you do need to change.

If the answer is no, then enjoy your quicksand.

Well said.

[MadMax359]

early in my interest in damsels in distress, I did have some self-doubt... but I'm confident now that I'm harmless... and I've found the occasional damsel who even likes it

[Fred588]

This is not aimed at the person who asked the question in any way but Shakespeare has a famous line that, I think, applies to many who raise issues such as "does porn promote mysogeny or promiscuous sex" or "do violent movie scenes promote violent behavior," or "does cigarette-smoking in a movie make people smoke." The line, from Hamlet, is "The lady protests too much, methinks." [Personally, I do have some suspicions about the last example, but then my profession involves issues of health and fitness]. I am fairly certain that some people with nefarious drives may gravitate toward film or video that relates in some way to that drive. But that is a far cry from a causal relationship the other way around. For the vast majority of people for whom the video is appealing, issues of mysogeny and the like are totally irrelevent.

It may also be that, as was the case in Hamlet, those who "protest too much" are doing so because of something within themselves. They protest too much either because they are in denial, they feel the need to cover up, from others, what they feel, or they project their own feelings onto others.

[PM2K]

I personally think no, but I think it can be portrayed that way.

Back in the early days before quicksand scenes become plentiful, thanks to the efforts of our tireless producers and their equally hard working performers, I would tape WAVE productions for sinking scenes, and some of them weren't bad at all, consideri9ng the alternative at the time was few to none. WAVE being a custom DID studio, I discovered later.

I quickly got turned off them by the rather unpleasant way they treated their ladies in the scenes. One recent scene had a lady trapped in quicksand deliberately by some photographer who she wouldn't pose nude for. So far, so good. But then he torments her, pouring water on her head (I guess it could have been a lot worse) and taunting her until she went under. Then, he hauled her corpse out of the bog and strips her naked so he can get those nude photos he wanted in the first place.

Beyond the obvious idiocies in this, what turned me off is the feelings of contempt the story showed our lady. The qs was really a secondary character, but really, there seemed to be a streak of meanness in this which really didn't do it for me. It is one of the reasons I'm not a big fan of the average slasher film, either. Anyway, I noticed this in a lot of WAVE productions... like the guy writing the proposal for the custom shoot really hates his girlfriend or something...

Looking at the scenes our qs producers do here, I sense none of that negative feeling, even in the grim ending scenes. Does that make any sense? Maybe this is just me, but I definitely can feel the difference. We here love our ladies, and our quicksand/mud/clay/peat, and it is evident in our discussions here, and in the way they are portrayed in scenes and artwork.

Anyway, that's my two cents.

[dlodoski]

"does cigarette-smoking in a movie make people smoke."

I can't recall what films they were, but there have been a couple movies have that made me, an ex-smoker, want to light up badly. But, that's something I would have done to myself, not to someone else.

...It may also be that, as was the case in Hamlet, those who "protest too much" are doing so because of something within themselves. They protest too much either because they are in denial, they feel the need to cover up, from others, what they feel, or they project their own feelings onto others.

This part is huge, and cannot be over-stated in terms of unspoken significance.

....I quickly got turned off them by the rather unpleasant way they treated their ladies in the scenes. One recent scene had a lady trapped in quicksand deliberately by some photographer who she wouldn't pose nude for. So far, so good. But then he torments her, pouring water on her head (I guess it could have been a lot worse) and taunting her until she went under. Then, he hauled her corpse out of the bog and strips her naked so he can get those nude photos he wanted in the first place.

Beyond the obvious idiocies in this, what turned me off is the feelings of contempt the story showed our lady. The qs was really a secondary character, but really, there seemed to be a streak of meanness in this which really didn't do it for me. It is one of the reasons I'm not a big fan of the average slasher film, either. Anyway, I noticed this in a lot of WAVE productions... like the guy writing the proposal for the custom shoot really hates his girlfriend or something...

Looking at the scenes our qs producers do here, I sense none of that negative feeling, even in the grim ending scenes. Does that make any sense? Maybe this is just me, but I definitely can feel the difference. We here love our ladies, and our quicksand/mud/clay/peat, and it is evident in our discussions here, and in the way they are portrayed in scenes and artwork.....

I believe that if a non-qs fetishist (never mind a non-fetishist) were to look at our content, they would likely have a similar reaction that you did. Even if their fetish involved aggressing against women. Just imagine - "Eeew! Your getting them filthy in that gook! How could you even see blood through all that mess?"

It's a classic outside/in inside/out conundrum that will never be solved to our collective satisfaction. We just have to see it for ourselves as individuals and make our own unique peace with it.

[Nessie]

If you want insight into the huge range of male fantasies, browse the listings at http://www.niteflirt.com and note especially the providers catering to men who have fantasies of themselves cuckolded into misandristic situations like forced feminization.

Okay, I looked.

This is my favorite ad.

"your Wallet Needs Draining, fuckface.
Details $4.99 per min"

Woohoo, I love honesty!

Nessie

[Conspiracy101]

I'll start by saying that I can sort of see how that idea can possibly cross someone's mind if they don't understand our interest in this fetish seeing as how our fetish does have a particular focus on the demise of women in some videos, but that point of view is likely to only going to come up to those who don''t, or refuse to, take the time to understand why these scenarios excite us. Along side that, anyone that is part of the new generation's political correctness movement is probably even more likely to find this misogynistic than someone who simply doesn't understand the fetish. I don't mean to speak for everyone when I say this, but I am basing this off my observations of the world today. Too many people try to find something wrong with nearly everything we do, see, listen to, watch, play, and read. Having said that, the reason I don't find our quicksand fetish misogynistic at all is because there are plenty of videos depict women rescuing each other or themselves, creating a sense of empowerment since the woman, or women, we're able to overcome a life threatening situation. Now that doesn't make the scenes where the damsel fails to escape and sinks to her doom any more wrong than say for example, a movie where a guy sinks in quicksand to his doom. I'd also like to point out that the way the producers treat their models has a lot to do with whether or not this material is misogynistic. As far as I can tell, the models/actresses are all treated very well by the producers like Mike and Dave, as well as the community here. This has never really crossed my mind as a woman hating fetish, but if I take a moment I can see why it might seem that way for a moment, again to reiterate, but only if the person(s) don't want to try to understand the fetish. I can honestly say that my wife has no problems at all with this fetish and has actually taken a liking to it that I would've only dreamed about. She may only be one example, but I can say with some confidence that it seems the models that willingly participate in these scenes also enjoy themselves or else they wouldn't return.

Well, that's my 2 cents.

[bbjohn]

I've given this some thought, and I keep coming back to what I've said before: a fetish is what it is. It's impossible to know where a fetish comes from, and if you have a certain fetish, it's impossible to explain it to someone who doesn't share that fetish. It's also difficult for someone who doesn't have a certain fetish to understand someone who does.

As an example, I know the foot fetish is very prevalent. I don't have this fetish, and I can't see why anyone could have a fetish for feet. However, I know that fetishes are impossible to fully understand, so I leave it at that.

Part of the problem today is so much of politically correct thinking has been influenced by the feminist crowd. If anyone gets a thrill out of seeing a woman in peril, the thinking goes, that person (usually male) must hate women. That is the logic that has been fed to much of the intellectual and media elite for the last 40 years or so.

I've noticed that most of the damsel-in-distress stuff available is restricted to adults only. I don't have any problem with that. At the same time, I've seen ultra-violent movies that are rated PG-13. My local Wal-Mart played scenes from "Transformers: Dark side of the Moon" on their TV screens last summer. I was horrified and sickened by the scenes of the big robots wiping out the residents of Chicago. This was there for everyone in the store to see, even small children.

Why is it a woman tied up and struggling is considered adult material, even if she's fully clothed, while violent fights, shootings and killings that involve mostly men are not? I can only conclude this is the result of PC thinking regarding women.

As I see it, as long as someone understands the difference between fantasy and reality, there's no problem. I see nothing wrong about fantasizing about women in peril, as long as one recognizes it's a fantasy and doesn't try to make it a reality.

To put it another way, it's okay to fantasize about women struggling in quicksand, as long as you know that, if you really did come across a woman in peril in quicksand, you would try to rescue her.

-Big Bad John

[MadMax359]

Why is it a woman tied up and struggling is considered adult material, even if she's fully clothed, while violent fights, shootings and killings that involve mostly men are not? I can only conclude this is the result of PC thinking regarding women.

-Big Bad John

well, I think it's mostly because for some of us, a tied up struggling woman is a sexual turn on...and if you go to a bondage site, that's exactly how it's marketed

I hope no one is sexually excited by violent fights, shootings and killings that involve mostly men... those who are, I think we call pyschopaths

as for the different attitudes about violence involving the genders... I know we can think of anecdotal cases where a woman gets violent with a man... but that doesn't begin to compare to men's global violence towards women---rape, abusive partners, honor killing, sex trafficking... so I do understand why some are sensitive about misogynistic attitudes

and I say this as someone who DOES like images of tied, struggling women, both in and out of quicksand...even for fantasy, fetish imagery I only find it exciting when the damsel escapes or gets rescued... I don't judge those who feel differently, I just don't share their feeling... and John's basic point about the difference between how people would react to an actual situation is 100% correct

[Duncan Edwards]

... I'd also like to point out that the way the producers treat their models has a lot to do with whether or not this material is misogynistic. As far as I can tell, the models/actresses are all treated very well by the producers like Mike and Dave, as well as the community here. This has never really crossed my mind as a woman hating fetish, but if I take a moment I can see why it might seem that way for a moment, again to reiterate, but only if the person(s) don't want to try to understand the fetish. I can honestly say that my wife has no problems at all with this fetish and has actually taken a liking to it that I would've only dreamed about. She may only be one example, but I can say with some confidence that it seems the models that willingly participate in these scenes also enjoy themselves or else they wouldn't return.

Well, that's my 2 cents.

If I could revisit this and try to make sense this time I'd try to say what you just did. The ladies involved get treated like rock stars by every producer I've hung around.They are aware that they are followed by a very devoted group of fans as well so it's easy to get them to return. That is not always the case from some of the stories they tell about other genres they have worked in, producers they have worked with, and disturbed fans who follow them. The more I think about it we really are a group that most of the time is more about respectfully admiring women than mistreating them. Add to that most of us seem to be pretty square regular guys who are in stable or even happy relationships with women in our own lives. Look at it another way and you might ask what it is that we are doing right that truly misogynistic types should try to emulate.