Airbus Industrie and Latest Idea to Kill You

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kham
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Airbus Industrie and Latest Idea to Kill You

Postby kham » Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:56 am

From Dead Reckoning

:roll: When I first saw this, the first thing I thought was "Airbus; why am I not surprised...''

Yeah, I am sure there are a host of expert retards they have lined up for their new cause, but that just makes them paid morons. Gee. Ya think you might want to be up front to judge nose angle for flare? or taxiing? I guess the squashed ground crew that are inevitable just the 'cost' of business, mmm??

God spare us from accountants masquerading as engineers....

Oh, and the sweet irony counterpoint to Kerry's post, is he currently reduced to almost no navaids at night, except the front window and a couple backup guages. Suuure, duuude, maybe you need to cut back the choom intake some , n'cest pas? :P

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Re: Airbus Industrie and Latest Idea to Kill You

Postby Mynock » Mon Jul 07, 2014 12:34 pm

I don't get it......you'd have to build some kind of pod shaped area into the tail for the pilot/copilot to sit in, which would pretty much negate any savings in aerodynamices from not having a windshield in the nose.
Are they keeping the windows in the passenger compartment? Maybe if they leave those alone when the screens go dead the guy up front can stick his head out the hatch and relay commands back to the blind people driving. Also then the people near the back can stick their arms out and use them as flaps when the rudder falls off. :mrgreen:
"Know thyself, know thy enemy. A thousand battles, a thousand victories."
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PM2K
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Re: Airbus Industrie and Latest Idea to Kill You

Postby PM2K » Mon Jul 07, 2014 5:00 pm

That's pretty insane.... and not in a good way.

Maybe this is a step towards using drone tech to pilot passenger airliners. That way you don't need a flight crew, right? Think of the savings! :roll:

Of course, folks may be a tad reluctant to get on remote control airways....

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Re: Airbus Industrie and Latest Idea to Kill You

Postby Mynock » Mon Jul 07, 2014 5:53 pm

I'm not sure how I would feel about going automated. On one hand it's scary to think of your life in the hands of a machine. On the other hand 95% of the time it's already in the hands of a machine, most of the time now the pilot does take off, sets the auto pilot and kicks back till it's time to land. Also on the other hand the majority of commercial airline crashes over the years have been caused by pilot error. Also on the other hand if the plane doesn't have a cockpit you can't hijack it and crash it into a skyscraper.......
"Know thyself, know thy enemy. A thousand battles, a thousand victories."
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Re: Airbus Industrie and Latest Idea to Kill You

Postby kham » Mon Jul 07, 2014 5:58 pm

When you consider the drivers would have to relearn how to fly basically from scratch, you gotta wonder :roll:

remember though, the missleheads at Airbus have always considered the pilot to be an unnecessary, and flawed part of the equation.....and they have altered black-box data in crashes to ensure the perception of this.

If it aint Boeing, I aint going
:evil:

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Re: Airbus Industrie and Latest Idea to Kill You

Postby Mynock » Mon Jul 07, 2014 6:09 pm

I think you either have to take the pilot out of the equation or give them full control of the aircraft. There's no happy medium between the two.
"Know thyself, know thy enemy. A thousand battles, a thousand victories."
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Re: Airbus Industrie and Latest Idea to Kill You

Postby kham » Mon Jul 07, 2014 7:05 pm

Thats the thing Myn; the pilot ALREADY has full control of the aircraft. That computers, fly-by-wire and automation is now an integral part of aviation is understood. It's how it's executed that is the issue. The Airbus way, is that their system is ALWAYS RIGHT, no matter what, under any condition. This has resulted in more than one bird splattering all over the surface. The Boeing way, is that the pilot can override instantly any computer options and decisions; THAT is what you are supposed to pay the pilot the big bucks for. One high-time airline pilot put it this way; there are times you don't want John Wayne as your pilot. But when the wings are burning, you might want to have him handy.

Case in point: the A380 a couple years ago that had a catastrophic failure of its #2 engine suffered literally dozens of ECAM error messages that took a very long time to sort through; that alone is a collossal flaw in cockpit management. But it's computers, and the backup captain (using the data it was using) gave a Vref of around 146 knots; the copilot instantly jumped on that, noting, NO WAY, that is way too slow -- add 20 knots. He knew that 146 would stall them, and with hydraulic and control problems, kill them all. They landed safely. Guess they still needed drivers there :twisted:

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Re: Airbus Industrie and Latest Idea to Kill You

Postby bbjohn » Tue Jul 08, 2014 12:43 am

I'm no engineer, but something I've learned over the years is the most important thing in engineering is to have good sense. Another equally important thing is to listen to the people you're doing the engineering for.

A good case in point. In 1999 and 2000, there was a major project in my home town to pave the streets and add curbs, gutters and sidewalks. The engineers recommended a certain grade of asphalt for a majority of the streets. The paving contractor, one of the top road construction firms in the West, told them that was the wrong grade for the level of traffic. It was too heavy, and the light traffic on the streets would cause the asphalt to crack in a few years.

The town's public works department went with the engineer's recommendations. Guess what? Those streets began to crack a lot sooner than they should have. The town had to shell out some big bucks to seal those cracks. They're still shelling out big bucks for them.

Another aspect of that street program involved raising the level of one of the major streets by a few inches. Residents in one block noted that, when it rained, the water ran through the alley behind their homes and emptied onto that street. They told the engineers and the public works people that, if the street were raised, the water would back up and flood their back yards, garages and homes.

The engineers replied, "We're engineers. We know what we're doing."

So, the street was raised. Guess what happened the first time it rained? You got it: those back yards, garages and homes were flooded. This cost the town a lot of money in damages, and well as additional work to redirect the water flow.

I wonder if it would be possible to devise a "good sense" test for engineers. Maybe then, we could avoid stuff like this or the Airbus lunacy.

To quote the sage, Homer Simpson, "D-oh!"

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Mynock
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Re: Airbus Industrie and Latest Idea to Kill You

Postby Mynock » Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:05 pm

kham wrote:Thats the thing Myn; the pilot ALREADY has full control of the aircraft. That computers, fly-by-wire and automation is now an integral part of aviation is understood. It's how it's executed that is the issue. The Airbus way, is that their system is ALWAYS RIGHT, no matter what, under any condition. This has resulted in more than one bird splattering all over the surface. The Boeing way, is that the pilot can override instantly any computer options and decisions; THAT is what you are supposed to pay the pilot the big bucks for. One high-time airline pilot put it this way; there are times you don't want John Wayne as your pilot. But when the wings are burning, you might want to have him handy.

Case in point: the A380 a couple years ago that had a catastrophic failure of its #2 engine suffered literally dozens of ECAM error messages that took a very long time to sort through; that alone is a collossal flaw in cockpit management. But it's computers, and the backup captain (using the data it was using) gave a Vref of around 146 knots; the copilot instantly jumped on that, noting, NO WAY, that is way too slow -- add 20 knots. He knew that 146 would stall them, and with hydraulic and control problems, kill them all. They landed safely. Guess they still needed drivers there :twisted:

That's pretty much what I'm getting at. When the tech is good enough that the CPU in the nose can take off, fly to a destination and land on it's own and deal with anything that might happen in between, by all means let the Terminator drive. Until then the pilot should have complete control.
"Know thyself, know thy enemy. A thousand battles, a thousand victories."
--Sun Tzu

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Re: Airbus Industrie and Latest Idea to Kill You

Postby General Woundwort » Wed Jul 09, 2014 4:23 pm

Interesting.

When I followed through with this, I found that Airbus was hoping to reduce the size of the "glazing" visual surface (not that I necessarily like that idea) but did not see any diagrams released by Airbus, or claims that the viewing surface (window) would be eliminated or reduced to negligible size. That seems to be the inference made by a Seattle writer, unless he possesses information and/or documents that were not linked or that I haven't seen.

TBH, I seriously doubt we'll see a windowless airliner anytime soon - even if someone intends to patent such a PR nightmare (imagine the first loss - and it's inevitable - even if unrelated to a lack of "windows" that will most certainly be blamed, and probable legal action will result). Anyone who builds such an aircraft would be subjecting themselves to a potential PR disaster. I'd pass.


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