Meanwhile, Somewhere in the English Channel...

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Mynock
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Re: Meanwhile, Somewhere in the English Channel...

Postby Mynock » Tue Nov 01, 2016 6:06 pm

^^Turbocharger failure. When a turbo seizes up the engine will still run but it will run but the mixture will be rich and make ridiculous amounts of smoke like that. Can't read Russian so not sure if the description says that or not. :D
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Grendel
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Re: Meanwhile, Somewhere in the English Channel...

Postby Grendel » Tue Nov 01, 2016 6:56 pm

Looks like bad combustion control. First thing I would suspect would be the draft fans. That's the obvious one, burning too rich. Then insufficient fuel oil atomization.

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Billie Bonce
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Re: Meanwhile, Somewhere in the English Channel...

Postby Billie Bonce » Wed Nov 02, 2016 2:01 pm

Mynock wrote:^^Turbocharger failure. When a turbo seizes up the engine will still run but it will run but the mixture will be rich and make ridiculous amounts of smoke like that. Can't read Russian so not sure if the description says that or not. :D

Actually no. In some cases people ask if it is diesel runaway condition - there are videos of such events on the same type of locomotives as well. But no, on these videos those diesels work as they can work, the extreme smoke is caused by generally poor state of the engines (and turbochargers in particular), excessive amount of engine oil getting in the cylinders through the breather and poor quality of the fuel. The locomotives on these videos all have the same type of engine - 2-stroke opposed pistons diesel copied in early 1950-s from Fairbanks Morse engine and later equipped with turbochargers. These engines - 10D100 - are still used on most Soviet and (later) ex-USSR (Russian, Ukrainian, etc) freight diesel locomotives. By the way, these engines are really prone to runaway because they don't have any means to close the air intake.

There is an alternative, much more modern engine D49 - 4-stroke diesel of the same power output, mostly used on passenger locomotives. Equipped with runaway protection system. But, unfortunately, also producing a lot of smoke, not only in Russia, but in other countries using these locomotives as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdBonZ7NGFw Lithuania
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITZAkd2wv7o Estonia

So, after all those locomotives, I believe Putin had no idea that instead of scaring the shit out of people his heavy cruiser would cause so much laugh :)
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Duncan Edwards
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Re: Meanwhile, Somewhere in the English Channel...

Postby Duncan Edwards » Wed Nov 02, 2016 3:01 pm

Billie Bonce wrote:There is an alternative, much more modern engine D49 - 4-stroke diesel of the same power output, mostly used on passenger locomotives. Equipped with runaway protection system. But, unfortunately, also producing a lot of smoke, not only in Russia, but in other countries using these locomotives as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdBonZ7NGFw Lithuania
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITZAkd2wv7o Estonia

So, after all those locomotives, I believe Putin had no idea that instead of scaring the shit out of people his heavy cruiser would cause so much laugh :)


This has been an interesting thread to follow for me. My grandfather was a railroad man for 47 years and he would be complaining greatly at all the fuel being sent into the sky if he saw such as this. My father was a Chief Petty Officer in the U.S. Navy at a time when it was unquestioned master of the oceans. Actually it sill is but to say so would take the heat off of U.S. politicians. I think it is safe to say that neither Mr. Putin's locomotives nor his navy cause any real concern as an existential threat among knowledgeable people. It's just his ability to make trouble in the power vacuum that currently exists with the U.S. having dropped it's responsibility as leader of free nations. It doesn't matter how inept his apparatus might be if we let him run around and do his damnedest to resurrect the Soviet Union. Unfortunately the West has become too concerned with bread and circus to pay attention to what is going on any longer. I can't see a Winston Churchill, John Kennedy, or Ronald Reagan on the horizon. Smoking, floating, joking wreck or not, Mr. Putin's navy is up to doing what he needs it to do.
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Re: Meanwhile, Somewhere in the English Channel...

Postby Mynock » Wed Nov 02, 2016 5:27 pm

I think we were much better leaders and the world was a lot more stable back when we were best frenemies with another 1st world superpower. I would much prefer being friends with another nuclear armed 1st world country instead of going to war with them over some third world shithole.
"Know thyself, know thy enemy. A thousand battles, a thousand victories."
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Re: Meanwhile, Somewhere in the English Channel...

Postby Billie Bonce » Sat Nov 05, 2016 1:50 pm

Mynock wrote:I would much prefer being friends with another nuclear armed 1st world country instead of going to war with them over some third world shithole.
Living in what turned into a third world shithole, I can only sigh with regret. If Putin saw that Western countries keep stronger position he would behave. Currently he does what he wants just because he clearly see that he is allowed to do it.
Duncan Edwards wrote:I think it is safe to say that neither Mr. Putin's locomotives nor his navy cause any real concern as an existential threat among knowledgeable people...
Don't ignore his submarines. Soviet Navy had different main focus than US Navy - it's main offensive force was the fleet of submarines with nuclear missiles, all the rest was just for their support. I don't know why Soviets finally decided to build those two aircraft carriers one of which now shamefully puffs on its inglorious way to the Syria shores, while the second one was left to Ukraine while neither Russia nor Ukraine had money to complete its construction - and it ended up in China which had both money and ambitions. I believe, it has proper maintenance of its engines in China Navy ;) But don't judge by those ships - they never were the main focus of the Soviets, and what remains of them is currently not the main priority of Russia. Unfortunately, Russia does have ability to fire nukes, and unfortunately it is under influence of their possessed fuhrer... He is not going to start the war, but he is happy to pose a threat.
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So many different suns
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Re: Meanwhile, Somewhere in the English Channel...

Postby kham » Sat Nov 05, 2016 2:41 pm

It's the newer small combatants, and the improved missile technology (I might have mentioned that before, and the Strategic Rocket Forces haven't been sitting on their ass for 25 years....) that is the bigger deal. The smokey is embarrassing at worst. But that's about it

Speaking of abject embarrassment, hey, an LCS cracked it's hull, AGAIN, while performing the dangerous maneuver of transiting the fucking Panama Canal.... You literally cannot make this stuff up :roll:

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Mynock
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Re: Meanwhile, Somewhere in the English Channel...

Postby Mynock » Sat Nov 05, 2016 8:07 pm

Billie Bonce wrote:Living in what turned into a third world shithole, I can only sigh with regret. If Putin saw that Western countries keep stronger position he would behave. Currently he does what he wants just because he clearly see that he is allowed to do it.


Exactly man.......bullies flourish when no one's willing to stand up to them. The sad truth is peace is only achievable when both sides are clearly ready and willing to push the big red button.... :roll:
"Know thyself, know thy enemy. A thousand battles, a thousand victories."
--Sun Tzu

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Duncan Edwards
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Re: Meanwhile, Somewhere in the English Channel...

Postby Duncan Edwards » Sat Nov 05, 2016 9:05 pm

Billie Bonce wrote:Soviet Navy had different main focus than US Navy - .. He is not going to start the war, but he is happy to pose a threat.


Exactly. The Soviet/Russian navy always looked different because it had a different mission. The U.S./NATO was about power projection, landing marines, always on the offensive. All the Eastern block forces had to do was keep this from happening. Playing the spoiler was a relatively simple thing to do and it was much less expensive. The ratio was never calculated to be a favorable exchange thought. For every twelve percent of the Soviet navy lost they could erode about three percent of the NATO forces. A battle of attrition wasn't going to last long, it just had to last long enough. That calculation has changed now but it's even worse against the forces of Mr. Putin. Surface ships and submarines alike would be gone in short order if push came to shove so where does Mr. Putin's advantage lie? How can he act with such confidence? He's facing a disorganized and poorly led opponent that is focused only on what not to do. He hasn't yet faced any real opposition and he knows he won't. The West has been eyeball deep in the war on terrorism for 15 years now and the rest of the world is his to exploit. Further incentive is provided by his need to keep his people looking at the West as the source of the increasing difficulties they are facing. Declining prices for oil and natural gas and diminishing markets are going to leave him hurting. Mr. Putin can pursue whatever course he chooses because Ronald Reagan, Margaret Thatcher, and Pope John Paul II are no longer around to get in his way. I don't see things changing much on either side for years at least.
It's a dirty job but I got to do it for 27 years. Thank you.

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Re: Meanwhile, Somewhere in the English Channel...

Postby nachtjaeger » Sat Nov 05, 2016 9:57 pm

I've been saying that for years. He puts his little toe across the proverbial line, nobody bats an eye. So he puts his big toe across the line- nothing. Now he's got his whole boot across the line, and NATO may have their lawyers write him a "strong letter."

If I were Putin, I would have my eye on the Baltics next. Reconnecting the strategically and economically important Kaliningrad Oblast to Russia proper with a land corridor would be very attractive.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaliningrad_Oblast

If I was in charge of Lithuania, I'd be planting demolition charges on all the bridges across the Neman right now.

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Billie Bonce wrote: If Putin saw that Western countries keep stronger position he would behave. Currently he does what he wants just because he clearly see that he is allowed to do it.
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