Net Neutrality

Sink Into On-Topic Discussions
enerj29
Posts: 114
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2015 3:30 pm
Location: PA, USA

Re: Net Neutrality

Postby enerj29 » Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:45 pm

Wouldn’t surprise me if the people in charge of the FCC itself had that done...

User avatar
Mynock
Posts: 2898
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:29 pm
Location: PA

Re: Net Neutrality

Postby Mynock » Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:55 am

It's dead Jim........
55a6d192ca9ef.image.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
"Know thyself, know thy enemy. A thousand battles, a thousand victories."
--Sun Tzu

User avatar
dlodoski
Site Sponsor
Posts: 7646
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 10:10 pm
Location: The Land of Ooze
Contact:

Re: Net Neutrality

Postby dlodoski » Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:41 pm

That cartoon is cute, but it misses the point.

Big business is the behemoth in this case, and our collective needs as consumers are what is diminished by the changes.

I suspect that this will go to the courts to some extent. But I don't know what grounds they will approach it on.

In the end, we'll just have to wait and see. I don't see the sky falling. But on the other hand, the Internet is a modern day, essential UTILITY, that if left to corporate interests, will be abused for profiteering.
The Wizard of Ooze stays behind the curtain!

https://allmylinks.com/dlodoski

Stay signed up to Club MPV and bank 10 free download tokens every month!

User avatar
Duncan Edwards
Posts: 4208
Joined: Sat Apr 11, 2009 11:41 am

Re: Net Neutrality

Postby Duncan Edwards » Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:49 pm

Sorry but I don't get the panic. Net Neutrality was not even a stated policy until 2015 and nobody died. In fact a lot of stuff got invented and we even entered the future with the ability for people to steal free porn. We've experienced having the market place in control of things before with the breakup of "Ma Bell", deregulation of the airlines, and other things that brought us all more for less.

Truth is though that we are in relatively uncharted territory and nobody knows for sure what to expect. Yes, some will pay a price but I'm embracing this as a way to get more of what we want and less "junk mail" out there. Get back to me in 5-10 years.
It's a dirty job but I got to do it for 27 years. Thank you.

User avatar
dlodoski
Site Sponsor
Posts: 7646
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 10:10 pm
Location: The Land of Ooze
Contact:

Re: Net Neutrality

Postby dlodoski » Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:07 pm

Duncan Edwards wrote:....Truth is though that we are in relatively uncharted territory and nobody knows for sure what to expect. Yes, some will pay a price but I'm embracing this as a way to get more of what we want and less "junk mail" out there. Get back to me in 5-10 years.

Indeed.

In fact, depending on access to the backbone providers, we may even see another wave of local ISPs popping up. I still think that municipal ISPs would be a very cool thing.
The Wizard of Ooze stays behind the curtain!

https://allmylinks.com/dlodoski

Stay signed up to Club MPV and bank 10 free download tokens every month!

User avatar
quagmire_uk
Posts: 1262
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 5:04 am

Re: Net Neutrality

Postby quagmire_uk » Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:39 pm

I think the reason for the panic is that the Net Neutrality policy of 2015 was implemented because a couple of ISPs started to do shady things. The fact that they've now got the policy repealed implies that they want to resume doing the shady things that they already started to do.

There was a situation where all the customers of one of the biggest providers (Comcast? Verizon? I can't remember) suddenly got very poor service on Netflix for a few days. The ISP had intentionally throttled the bandwidth of all Netflix traffic, and then told Netflix that if they wanted their customers to have sufficient speed to stream Netflix videos in HD, then Netflix would need to pay the ISP a big payment. The ISP blackmailed Netflix.

Netflix caved after just a couple of days, because Netflix couldn't afford a situation where millions of paying customers couldn't reliably use their service. (Especially as most people would be likely to assume that the problem was at Netflix's end; web browsing and youtube etc all worked fine, so customers would have no reason to suspect a problem with their ISP.)

Netflix had no choice but to give in, because the ISP wasn't doing anything illegal. As far as the ISP was concerned, they can choose to slow or stop or speed-up any traffic they choose, because it's their service and they can decide what to allow on it, they're not just providing internet, they're providing "Comcast internet" or "Verizon internet" and that can mean as much or as little of the internet as they choose.

I think there was also a case where an ISP prevented Skype from working, because it was a rival to their own webcam talk service.

There were years where Net Neutrality wasn't an issue simply because it hadn't occurred to companies to start picking and choosing which web services to allow, Net Neutrality was simply the de facto state of affairs without it being in law. When companies started fucking around with various web services, Net Neutrality became a talking point and then a policy was brought it about it.

So getting rid of Net Neutrality won't simply return things to how they were 5 or 10 years ago, when everything was free and neutral anyway it'll return it to have things were 2 years ago when companies started getting experimental and blackmailing Netflix and blocking Skype.

User avatar
Mynock
Posts: 2898
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:29 pm
Location: PA

Re: Net Neutrality

Postby Mynock » Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:29 pm

^^Any more details on the above scenarios? Was this in US or in the UK? Cause over here your service contract with your ISP basically states they're giving "X" amount of bandwidth for "Y" dollars a month. Any attempt to monkey with that would render them in breach of contract and you could sue them.

I would be fine with a piece of legislation that forbid that kind of behavior, IF it did start becoming a problem, but I will not support re-classifying broadband as a public utility or the nationalization of BILLIONS of dollars of privately owned infrastructure. That's nothing more than a blatant power grab.
"Know thyself, know thy enemy. A thousand battles, a thousand victories."
--Sun Tzu

Fred588
Producer
Posts: 17785
Joined: Sat Apr 11, 2009 3:37 pm
Location: Central Arkansas (At Studio 588)
Contact:

Re: Net Neutrality

Postby Fred588 » Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:45 pm

I've not seen anything about any kind of nationalization.

The issue of whether something is a public utility or not is, rather complex. I think it comes down to whether or not something is, or becomes, a practical necessity. Electric service, landline telephone service, roads, public water supplies, and the like are, I think, considered utilities because they are pretty much essential. They typically fall into the category of a "regulated" public utility when they behave in a manner that requires it (or is perceived to require it). A closely related issue has to do with monopolies. When a utility is also a monopoly then the customer has no choice other than to pay up or do without. If the utility is essential then government steps in to limit the behavior of the monopoly.

The definition of a monopoly, of course, is also complicated. A utility is clearly a monopoly if it is an only provider. That's obvious. But sometimes there are, say, two providers but they collude to behave as if they are one. Where I live, for example, there are only two alternatives for broadband - both satellite based (Viasat and Hughes). I am not saying they collude at all, but if they did they would be functionally a monopoly.

In other words, its complicated.
Studio 588 currently offers more than 2200 different HD and QD quicksand videos and has supported production of well over 2400 video scenes and other projects by 20 different producers. Info may be found at:
http://studio588qs.com
http://quicksandland.com
http://psychicworldjungleland.com

User avatar
Mynock
Posts: 2898
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:29 pm
Location: PA

Re: Net Neutrality

Postby Mynock » Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:08 pm

You could convince me that the internet is a public utility, but not broadband. I can access the internet over a public utility phone line with enough bandwidth to do necessary things like pay bills, renew my car registration, etc. If I want the luxury of streaming 4K videos on Youtube I have to pay more. Same way if I want to use a public highway, I'm free to do so, but if I want to ride in a 5.0 Mustang instead of a Honda Civic, that's on my dime.
"Know thyself, know thy enemy. A thousand battles, a thousand victories."
--Sun Tzu

User avatar
Nessie
Producer
Posts: 2631
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2009 8:30 pm

Re: Net Neutrality

Postby Nessie » Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:00 pm

quagmire_uk wrote:There was a situation where all the customers of one of the biggest providers (Comcast? Verizon? I can't remember) suddenly got very poor service on Netflix for a few days.


Is this it?

https://www.cnet.com/news/netflix-reaches-streaming-traffic-agreement-with-comcast/

Looking for that, I found this:

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2009/12/comcast-throws-16-million-at-p2p-throttling-settlement/

And wow...you can go crazy on all the links with this one.

https://www.freepress.net/blog/2017/04/25/net-neutrality-violations-brief-history

Here's a couple from How Stuff Works about why we care and what to expect now that it's gone.

https://computer.howstuffworks.com/10-reasons-care-about-net-neutrality.htm
https://computer.howstuffworks.com/net-neutrality-is-gone-how-could-that-affect.htm

So, major ISPs say, "We won't ever do that to you!" Should we believe them?

https://www.publicknowledge.org/news-blog/blogs/fact-checking-isps-claims-of-support-for-net-neutrality

The internet was a luxury years ago, but it's a utility now. The biggest reason why is that we all need to eat and pay bills.

It has become difficult to become employed or start a business without the internet. Paper applications for job seekers are going away. Walk into a company and ask for one and they may just tell you to go home and do it online. (Been there and done it.) Cold call and you'll get voice mail. And no, borrowing the library computer isn't enough, at least in my neck of the woods. Time was rationed, last I saw, at half an hour. You'll be unemployed forever at only half an hour per session.

Only the smallest companies still do it the old-fashioned way, but you'll still probably need to be at least functionally computer literate to work there.

And if you want to start a business, you'll definitely need the internet. You will need a website and email and some way to advertise.

It's getting worse. Malls are closing and Amazon is coming. So that will be one more thing we have to do online someday.

Few people are truly free to give the finger to the internet. And when you can't turn a thing off even if you want to, you no longer have a luxury. You have a utility.

Yes, the Internet is full of hours squandered on Facebook and silly cat videos. But the fact that some people waste heat and water on steamy bubble baths with an attractive partner doesn't make heat and water a luxury.

Nessie


Return to “General Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests