Why do they get stuck and we dont?

[canyouendure]

I don't know if this question has been brought up or not.

I see all tease "dramatic rescues" of people out on mud flats or in river beds stuck in the mud and police and rescue crews have to work hard to get them free. So why do people who didn't intend on getting in the mud find themselves hopelessly stuck and those of us that seek it out and try to get into it have no major problems maneuvering in it? I've been shoulder deep in the same body of mud that other people required rescue to get out of and they were only waist deep.

So what skill do we possess that the general public doesn't? It's not like I went to any special school on how to sink in mud. I just did what was logical to get in and out.

What say you??

[Fred588]

Before attempting an answer let me emphasize that while I am heavily involved in the quicksand community and relevant video production, what I provide below is strictly my unprofessional opinion.

The question here is "Why do they get stuck when we do not?"

In any question of this type an answer must be predicated on the question itself not being a red herring. That is, is it true that "they get stuck and we do not." Bear in mind that there are different kinds of mud and different conditions that might be encountered with each kind. With true quicksand, as occurs at Turnagain Arm near Anchorage, for example, I am not convinced that "we" would not get just as stuck as anyone else.

The above being said, I do think there are factors of behavior and probably psychology that ARE related to "they" getting stuck and "we" not getting stuck. One, which I have observed in people trying to learn to swim and that I have also mentioned as the "instructor" in most of my "first time" scenes, is that for people who are unfamiliar with being in a liquid environment (water or mud) the apparently natural behavior is to always try to elevate the head as much as possible. Elevating the head causes the legs to sink, putting the person into a vertical position so that any efforts at what the person thinks is "forward" is really a doomed effort to fly. For a person to become able to swim effectively the unnatural behavior of putting the head and face down into the liquid, so as to allow the legs to float, must be learned. The same thing is true in mud. The person must, at least, lower the head and face toward the surface.

Another behavioral or perhaps psychological factor may be derived from fear. The movements of a person who is fearful are almost always more violent and poorly directed that those of a person who is not fearful. This wastes energy. Most people who are uncomfortable fearful) in a situation will make too much use of the hands and arms and too little use of the legs. I have seen this many times in novice cave explorers learning to chimney-climb, to repel down a cliff, or to rock climb. I have also frequently observed inexperienced quicksand-scene models try to climb out of a pit using their arms and with the feet beneath them rather than assuming a swimming position and crawling out using the legs.

I would not be surprised if there are other factors as well.

[bogbud]

Fred pretty much sums it up already.

In fall or winter i do always search the news for reports of people, horses or both who had to be rescued from deep mud. When i'm lucky, those places are near me and pretty much worth a try. Did find some decent locations that way

Back on topic: I do get stuck, too and really like that. The difference to normal people is we do search and visit those places on purpose and are ready to get muddy. My guess is about 95% of these accidents we do read about could have been avoided if the people had a basic tool (stick, tree-branch, umbrella, anything that gives some leverage) and were less reluctant to get their hands or clothes dirty (most basic tip: sit down and dig your legs out )

[Nessie]

The only time I ever got stuck was on my first sink with my first sink buddy.

We thought it was funny. And we just dug ourselves out.

I think Fred is right about the fear thing. My buddy did say, "I am so glad this only happened to us and not a model."

Experience counts too. I never got stuck again after that. It may be worth noting that I have a sinking fetish, not a stuck fetish, so I'm motivated to not get stuck and I can gauge the feel of a mudpit pretty well.

I think we mud folk just learn to work that mud for our own nefarious purposes while other people fall into it by surprise and they're ignorant.

Nessie

[Boggy Man]

It is true that people get stuck due to lack of knowledge of the nature of various types of mud (especially the settling properties of quicksand), and how to escape such situations, as well as the wearing of clothing not intended for going into mud, such as footwear that can create tremendous suction in the mud. But, keep in mind that there are perhaps substantially more people who get caught in the mud unintentionally, but who are able to get out on their own without needing any emergency personnel, and are therefore never reported in the media, although some do make it onto YouTube.

[Nessie]

But, keep in mind that there are perhaps substantially more people who get caught in the mud unintentionally, but who are able to get out on their own without needing any emergency personnel, and are therefore never reported in the media, although some do make it onto YouTube.

Come to think of it, that works both ways...

It also could be that some people who got stuck and ended up having to be rescued are in fact quicksand lovers -- but they claimed that it was an accident.

Nessie

[Duncan Edwards]

I've written before about personal experience where footwear was most often the culprit. Aggregate of some kind in quarry mud can really complicate things even in bare feet but shoes of any kind make it exponentially worse. I think most people panic and see a difficult situation as hopeless. While those occasions certainly exist they are probably few. Ten years ago I was relatively fit and built more like Boggyman so I know if I was left huffing and puffing after a difficult extrication then it was going to be much more difficult for many others. As Nessie pointed out experience is a great teacher and we are more likely to see bad situations coming before they get out of hand. Being built like a cat probably doesn't hurt her either.

[Nessie]

I've written before about personal experience where footwear was most often the culprit.

Yep. I found that out in a hurry. In my very first good mudpit that I found by myself, the mud ssssssSUCKED off a (very thin) shoe. I did slip my foot out of it (no problem after that) and I reached in and I could feel that shoe with my hands, but I could absolutely not get it out, so I'm sure it's still there.

Shoes can be awful. Unless you have a stuck fetish, that is.

Nessie

[joedeep130535]

OK-I do have a stuck fetish & spend time & trouble looking for mud to get stuck in Have not-yet-found any quicksand but have been to places where rescues have taken place to find exciting mud in which I struggled,sank-- & got out Surely it is a matter of technique & maybe confidence as to whether one is truly stuck or simply enjoying some deep,sticky mud
A recent correspondence with a guy in US of A does make me wonder whether some of your clays have a much higher "adhesion factor" than most in UK He is describing long & exhausting struggles to escape from the clay which would be a total delight to me
To some extent the knowledge that I can get out is an anti-climax to my stuck sessions but then if I truly could not get out of some mud one day ----

[dlodoski]

Like others have said, shoes and boots.

Whatever suction or vacuum issue is at play, it is amplified greatly by the size and shape and (especially?) rigidity of soles.

I recently had to excavate the bottom of a hole that consisted of knee deep gravely muck covered by water. I intentionally wore a pair of sneakers that are missing the soles. They are now essentially laced beach shoes. And even then, they caused me difficulty (a bum knee not withstanding). If they had been regular tennis shoes, I wouldn't have made it out.