Butt First!

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Aiko
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Re: Butt First!

Postby Aiko » Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:01 pm

Qsvgitguy wrote:Hi everybody,

I'm in the middle of simulating out the quicksand for this movie now. This shot is 8500 frames long, and I'm on frame 1176. Here's a peak with 4 different camera angles. I finally found a way to make the QS stick to her skin in a realistic and stylish way.

Enjoy! :D

Butt First Frame 1176.jpg


8500 frames sounds like quite the project - even without the simulation. I have tried some simulations with Fluidos and with Blender, but so far the results have been below expectations. Fluidos is resource-hungry and still a bit buggy. And exchanging simulation data between Daz and Blender is a bit of a problem to put it mildly.

So, how long does the average frame take to simulate with RealFlow? I'm very much looking forward to the finished video.
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Re: Butt First!

Postby Qsvgitguy » Sat Jun 08, 2019 11:37 pm

@Jason Sample: Thanks Dude! :D

@Sinker Cutie: I'm glad you're enjoying the sink, and the new quicksand recipe, but sorry, I'm not into pleasure sinks. I want the fear, the terror, the drama! :twisted: I'm kind of a sick fuck that way. :lol:

@Aiko: Yes, 8500 frames is quite a lot, and that's only for one shot. Well, two actually. The scene I'm simulation in Real Flow now is actually a combination of shots 4 & 5. There are 6 shots with this girl so far. It took a long time to get the animation in Poser done right. Then bringing the animation into Real Flow, it took several weeks of experimentation to get the right QS recipe, but once I did, it started to come out fantastic! 8-)

The fluid system in Blender is very good actually, considering it's free, but yes, it's limited. The only reason I'm not using it is it has the same problem of exchanging data between Poser/Daz and Blender. The way I have to do it is I animate the shot in Poser. Import the poser scene into Lightwave, export from Lightwave using a special plugin that came with Real Flow so it will be in a format that Real Flow can read. After the fluid has been simulated out, I import the fluid geometry into Lightwave for rendering. It's better to render in Lightwave than Poser because Lightwave has many more tools and much more capability than Poser does. I could not have made Disappearing Act just in just Poser.

As to how long the simulation takes per frame, the answer is it depends on how many particles you have, and how much and how complicated the geometry is. And Real Flow has its share of quirks.

One of the problems with Real Flow is it too is kind of buggy at times. The sticky function does not work well in the fluid engine I would like to use, the node system they use does not always work right, forcing you to delete certain nodes and re-adding them to make things work again, and when you actually start the simulation, at first, the simulation goes pretty fast.

The shot I'm simulating now has about 2,874,000 particles. Geometry includes the girl, her hair, the shore line (solid ground), and a layer in the pit that's deep where the girl is but shallow everywhere else. When I start the simulation, it's pretty fast at first but the time per frame inches its way up as the simulation progresses. So, it takes about 1.5 minutes at first, but if I let it go too long, it can take anywhere from 4-5 minutes per frame. To fix that I will stop the simulation, close Real Flow, then start it up again. When I do that, it starts out fast again. I try to restarted the program about every 2 hours or so. This helps speed things along. As I type this, we're up to frame 1358 of 8500. I think we're looking at over 2 weeks to finish. But it will look great when its done. At least I hope so.

Cheers! :)

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Re: Butt First!

Postby JSample » Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:49 am

SinkerCutie wrote:Man, every time you get a new sinky pic posted, I can't help but want a more pleasurable sink from you...and the improvements to the quicksand don't help there!

Hey, SinkerCutie, while my own thing is, like that of Qsvgitguy, the damsel in distress sinking to her doom, back in April I started posting a multi-part story called "The Girl," of which practically all of chapter two is indeed the kind of pleasurable sink that you seem to enjoy (at least until the girl realizes that she's slipped over a hidden drop-off near the very end of the chapter). If you haven't yet read it, and if you think you'd like to, that chapter link is at viewtopic.php?f=14&t=20407#p129257. And I may yet have a story or two in me that is indeed about a pleasurable sink without terror or drama. ;)
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Re: Butt First!

Postby Aiko » Sun Jun 09, 2019 12:20 pm

I would expect more stability from a pricey commercial product such as RealFlow. Well, at least you have the option of resuming a simulation.

Fluidos once crashed on me after 2+ weeks of running a simulation and all I got was the incomplete result with the option to start over. I like Blender's simulation a lot better and I even managed to get an animated character's geometry exported into it after some trial and error with Collada DAE format options, so I could run the simulation. But I have failed to get the animated fluid mesh back into Daz thus far (only the first frame, no animation). I do all my rendering Daz, because I really like to use Iray.

Keep up the great work you're doing! :)
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Re: Butt First!

Postby Qsvgitguy » Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:38 pm

Wow! I had never heard of Fluidos before. I checked it out on DAZ and can't imagine it's that good based on the price. When I first found Real Flow back in 2010, it was 4000 dollars US a copy. Now it's about 1100 dollars. I had been buying their "Learning Edition" until they finally had a sale and I was able to buy the full commercial license for about 450.

But yes, considering how expensive it is, it sure is buggy. But, many Hollywood production companies use Real Flow in many mainstream movies in the theaters. You can see some of the professional project its been involved in here...

http://www.nextlimit.com/realflow/gallery/

The nice thing about Real Flow, and Blender I presume too, is that once it simulate out the fluid for a given frame, it save that info in a cache file on your hard drive so you have to have A LOT of hard drive space.

I've never used Blender's fluid system, but I've seen people do a lot of cool stuff with it. Look for a way to import a sequence of files into DAZ. You can't do it in Poser that I know of, but maybe. If yes, maybe you can save your blender cache files as OBJ which DAZ can read without a problem. That's something I can do in Lightwave, but Real Flow comes with a plugin that makes it unnecessary.

Good Luck, :)

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Re: Butt First!

Postby Aiko » Sun Jun 09, 2019 3:29 pm

Fluidos also stores its simulation data in a folder that you need to specify and naturally the contents can become quite large as well.

As for using OBJ format to get data from Blender to Daz, well, AFAIK the OBJ format stores no animation data whatsoever, but it might be possible to do that manually for each frame and then import that into Daz. I'm not sure as I have not actually tried. The prospect of having to load each single frame of the simulated liquid into Daz manually (and then set that object's visibility so that it is only shown in that one frame) is not something I would look forward to. That might be a bearable task for a 2 second animation, but it's not something I would want to do for anything beyond that (certainly not for 8500 frames ;) ). Maybe, someday someone will write a Daz plugin that can help with the import.

Until then I will keep playing with Fluidos and see whether I can get some decent results with it. Sadly, it's the only option for fluid simulation within Daz right now.
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Re: Butt First!

Postby Qsvgitguy » Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:19 pm

Keep at it Aiko,

It's not the tools, it's the artist! :)

Here's another picture from the movie at frame 1984! She's all sticky from 4 different angles.

Enjoy! :D
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Re: Butt First!

Postby JSample » Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:42 pm

Qsvgitguy wrote:Keep at it Aiko,
It's not the tools, it's the artist! :)
Here's another picture from the movie at frame 1984! She's all sticky from 4 different angles.
Enjoy! :D

Really can't wait to see the finished product! :)
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Re: Butt First!

Postby MadMax359 » Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:32 am

thanks, love her body language :twisted:
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Re: Butt First!

Postby Qsvgitguy » Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:13 am

Thanks Max! Is is about the frame when she just puts her legs down and now she's realized her they are hopelessly stuck deep down in the muck! :twisted:

Part of what's going on in her head is she's just realized that was a big mistake! :o :shock: Hence the "oh shit!" look on her face and body pose. :lol:


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