First mud skinny-dip of the season

[Fred588]

Boggyman hits the nail on the head when he says, "calf cramps which are aggravated if my feet aren't flat". A muscle spasm is when a muscle contacts and is then unable to relax. There are several factors that lead to them, including fatigue and a local shortage of potassium, but the trigger is usually an inadvertent attempt to contract a muscle while it is in a lengthened position and without resistance. That is exactly the situation for the large muscle at the back of the lower leg (gastrocnemius for those who passed anatomy class) when the foot is in a pointed (plantar flexed) position. The way to stop a muscle spasm is to use other muscles (ideally another person) to force the muscle into a shortened position, in this case by forcing the foot into the opposite (dorsiflexed) position. This requires significant force, generally cannot be done using opposing muscles, and would be impossible while stuck in a mud bog.

The best way to avoid these cramps in the future is to learn to not contract any muscle without resistance (especially a large one) while it is in a lengthened position. Sometimes a muscle spasm of this type is made more likely to occur if one's body is depleted in potassium. A potassium depletion can occur locally following heavy use of a muscle but is a lot more common as a systemic issue in the elderly. This is why patients, usually elderly ones, who complain of muscle cramps, often while sleeping, are told to try eating bananas. Bananas are a rich source of potassium.

The above sounds somewhat like medical advice. It is not intended as such. Fred588 is not a medical doctor, but he was a professor of exercise science until he retired two years ago.

[jungleQSman]

super spot .. would also love to know about the general location...

[MiguelAtkins]

Leg cramps can be rather annoying and painful. In the past, when I sunk into quicksilt, with a very long extraction time, I would sometimes get calf cramps which are aggravated if my feet aren't flat, which is hard to do when there are phenq user reviews nothing solid beneath them! I would writhe in pain, feel almost light-headed, and would frantically struggle to work myself out as fast as I could, which was not fast enough! But once I was able to get out, and force my feet flat on the ground, the pain would then go away. Cramps in my thighs would last longer, even when out of the mud, causing the leg(s) to seize up completely sometimes. At my Crescent Road pond, when the mud flats (long since covered in sedge grass except for my sinking spot which I keep open) were first exposed, I once had to just use my arms to drag myself to shore/solid ground because my legs were totally frozen, while a low flying plane flew overhead! My legs are always sore for days afterwards when I get cramps, and was encountering them sinking even 20 years ago!

So, I feel your pain!

I too can feel it. I too suffer from cramps in my thighs and even keeping feet flat doesn't work for me. I keep kicking my legs downwards one at a time and after some time the extreme pain and cramps go away. But the effect can be experienced even after a couple of days as a little pain remains.

[MichaelHopwood]

I too can feel it. I too suffer from cramps in my thighs and even keeping feet flat doesn't work for me. I keep kicking my legs downwards one at a time and after some time the extreme pain and cramps go away. But the effect can be experienced even after a couple of days as a little pain remains.

I too had the same problem. and the pain was sometimes unbearable. My doc had diagnosed lack of calcium in my body as the reason for the cramps. I have been taking the calcium gels for the last three years, but still have suffered from the cramps twice. But I'm happy as earlier the frequency was at least once a month.

[Fred588]

I too can feel it. I too suffer from cramps in my thighs and even keeping feet flat doesn't work for me. I keep kicking my legs downwards one at a time and after some time the extreme pain and cramps go away. But the effect can be experienced even after a couple of days as a little pain remains.

I too had the same problem. and the pain was sometimes unbearable. My doc had diagnosed lack of calcium in my body as the reason for the cramps. I have been taking the calcium gels for the last three years, but still have suffered from the cramps twice. But I'm happy as earlier the frequency was at least once a month.

What you are describng as cramps are almost certainly muscle spasms. More descriptively, a muscle spasm of this type refers to the loss of the ability of a large muscle to relax after having contracted. It is my understanding that the cause is not fully understood but they commonly are related to a shortage of important chemicals involved in muscle contraction. Calcium is one of those but so are potassium and magnesium. The shortage, of whatever chemical it is, can be related to one's diet but can also be from a local depletion from unaccustomed exercise. Dehydration can also be a factor. The role of potassium in muscle spasm is why consumption of bananas (which are high in potssium) is often recommended.

When a spasm of this type occurs, the best approach to stopping it is to passively stretch the muscle in spasm. Passive here means stretching the muscle by means OTHER THAN the muscles that perform the opposite joint movement. Obviously is one is alone and chest deep in mud when a leg muscle goes into spasm, a passive stretch is probably impossible.

The repeated kicking described here as providing some relieve, probably did so by increasing local circulation (around the affected muscle) such that the chemical balance was sufficiently restored.

I would suggest that if the mud was very cold when these cramps occurred that could well have been a factor. Athletes are taught to warm up prior to competition and that means quite literally to increase the temperature of the muscles that are going to be used significantly. Soaking the muscles in cold mud would, obviously, have the opposite effect.

As an aside, I should mention that if one is going to both warm up and stretch prior to muscle activity one should ALWAYS do the warm up FIRST.

Be advised that I am not a doctor of medicine. I was, however, a university level teacher in exercise science for 35 years.

[Sinkman61]

You need to invest in some compression tights. Wear them after you cleanup from your sinking adventure to eliminate sore muscles. The compression forces more oxygen enriched blood to your muscles which gives them a much faster recovery time. If you’re one of those stuck on the old (and ridiculous adage that “real men don’t wear tights”, well, I don’t feel sorry for you. It’s a shame though, because you’ve been denying yourself one of the most comfortable garments you can possibly ever put on your body. I happen to wear them all the time for my gym sessions. And it’s extremely rare for me to still be sore the next day. Nothing works better. And when wearing them at the gym, the freedom of movement they provide is second only to being stark naked.

[Fred588]

You need to invest in some compression tights. Wear them after you cleanup from your sinking adventure to eliminate sore muscles. The compression forces more oxygen enriched blood to your muscles which gives them a much faster recovery time. If you’re one of those stuck on the old (and ridiculous adage that “real men don’t wear tights”, well, I don’t feel sorry for you. It’s a shame though, because you’ve been denying yourself one of the most comfortable garments you can possibly ever put on your body. I happen to wear them all the time for my gym sessions. And it’s extremely rare for me to still be sore the next day. Nothing works better. And when wearing them at the gym, the freedom of movement they provide is second only to being stark naked.

Compression tights do NOT "force more oxygen enriched blood to your muscles". Not directly.They might help keep muscles in their exactly proper positions, but their principal purpose is to prevent or reduce edema (swelling). Swelling, of course, will reduce circulation, so there will be more blood flow, so it will be more accurate to say they "may allow more blood flow." I use the word "may" because any gain in blood flow will be relative to what would have occurred if any swelling took place. In the same way, such tights may help with the elimination of lactic acid from muscle activity but again this is relative to what might occur if there is sweliing. Another factor is that the hydrostatic pressure from the water and/or mud will have exactly the same effect. In fact, when it is convenient, immersion in water may be an effective short term alternative to compression tights for people with peripheral edema provided their are no contraindications. Contraindications to this could include, for example, fear of immersion, or severe obesity. The obesity might make it difficult to get in and out of a tank of water. I am not aware of any research looking at both tights and immersion together but as a general rule it is not true that if "two tablets are good then four will be better."

As I have stated earlier, and in this very thread, I am not a medical doctor but I was a university-level professor in the field of exercise science for 35 years.

[Sinkman61]

Oh, really? And as a university professor you’re not a medical doctor? Because unless you is, you’re no more knowledgeable in any area you hasn’t studied than anyone else. Compression tights actually DO PROVIDE OXYGEN LADEN BLOOD TO YOUR MUSCLES FASTER. And if you have ever taken your blood pressure before and after you put them on, you’ll see that it increases. That’s because it’s preventing blood from pooling in your lower legs, making more room for additional blood to enter. That’s fresh blood with oxygen. It goes to the muscles, does it’s work, then quickly leaves, as it can’t pool either. And as it’s leaving it draws away the lactic acid that the muscles created while doing their work. You can actually feel this acid being drawn out, because that’s what causes the pain you feel as your muscles reach their peak loading. They also help to keep your muscles from vibrating as they reach their maximum strength.

Now, I wouldn’t know this, but unlike going to a university professor I went to SEVERAL doctors and doctor specialist. And I have a professional trainer that’s also a fully certified physical therapist. I picked him for my trainer because of the latter. They’ve got far more than 35 years experience AND have medical degrees in the field. I happen to be a fully disabled Veteran. I’m missing 7 disk, 1 vertebrae, and a rib from my body. In their place are titanium rods, screws, and a cage. And all that damage created nerve damage as well, so my spinal cord is continually bathed in a small amount of morphine from an embedded pump in my abdomen. I use full compression, both the tights and shirt during my training sessions at the gym. And they work. Rarely if ever do I get any soreness following my workouts. I’m only 5’3”, yet I weigh 170 pounds. And I’m not fat. I’ve got heavy, dense muscle. I put on all this muscle to compensate for a weak lower back. Using compression gear most certainly helped. Bicyclists use compression too. Because compression provides muscle groups with MORE OXYGEN FASTER while taking away lactic acid. That’s why standard bike shorts just happen to be compression shorts as well.

Compression gear has nothing...ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO SWELLING. That’s an entirely different kind of compression, and usually requires doctor supervision. It’s a much more intense compression that’s applied completely different from the compression gear for athletic purposes. Athletic compression gear isn’t designed to reduce swelling of anything. It’s targeted at muscle groups. There’s a huge difference between the different types of compression garments. Athletes don’t wear compression gear for swelling. They wear it for the benefits it gives to muscle groups. They oxygenate faster, remove waste products as a result of working faster, keep joints aligned better, and keep muscles from vibrating at maximum loads. I didn’t start using compression on a whim. I did a butt load of research, talked to my multiple doctors, and talked to my trainer. Then I went and did even more research. As someone that uses them almost daily over the course of several years, I can tell you that, YES, THEY ABSOLUTELY WORK. They certainly won’t turn you into a superhero, but they’ll let you work at your maximum for slightly longer. But over the course of weeks, months, and years, that slightly longer makes its huge difference. The injury I sustained should’ve paralyzed me. My spinal cord was damaged. I had been rear ended by an SUV while sitting at a red light on a motorcycle. The SUV that hit me rear ended me at over 60 mph. I fought back, tooth and nail, for 13 long years before I could even begin with a trainer. Now I’m able to scuba dive (with limits), ride a mountain bike, ride a jet ski, and even go mudding. Don’t tell me compression doesn’t give muscles more oxygen. I know better. I think you’re just afraid of what others will think of you if they see you wearing tights. I wear them all the time. I don’t care what they think. I’m much more interested in the benefits they’ve been giving me over the years.

My sister is also a doctor. She’s a biological chemist. I wouldn’t trust her to know the time of day. With all that education, she sells John Deer tractors. She too was a college professor. As a scuba diver, I’m familiar with the compressive effects of water. Incidentally, water provides zero benefits from its compression effects. That’s because in Oder to get such benefits, you need to go down deeper than just 5 or 6 feet. That means you need to take an air supply with you. But...that air supply feeds air at the same pressure as the water surrounding you. Thus, being that your tissues are incompressible and the air your breathing is also at the same pressure, any pressure the water would exert is countered, thus nullifying it completely. That’s why deep sea divers can work on the ocean floor at depths of over 600 feet. Their bodies are also pressurized to the water at that depth. It’s also why they work for a month straight. Because decompressing their bodies is a lengthy process.

[Fred588]

I think if you read my post you will see that I said basically the same thing. But you are wrong about needing to go deeper for the compression of being immersed to have an effect. It depends on what effects you mean. One effect of immersion in just a few feet, and a relevant one, is demonstrated by the often sudden need to pass urine within a short time of going in. This is caused by the increased blood pressure fooling the kidneys into thinking the blood pressure is too high and responding by removing water from the blood.

[Sinkman61]

The need to pass urine is a side effect of your hands simply getting wet. You never did that to someone who was sleeping before? You can make some people piss in their bed simply by putting water on their hand. You simply dip a couple of their fingers in a glass of warm water and they’ll start to pee. That was a common stunt in the Navy on sleeping sailors. After years and years of scuba diving, I’ve never had the urge to pee just because I entered the water unless it happened to be warm water. Back in those days you generally didn’t wear a wetsuit in warm waters because they were such a pain in the ass just to put on. Today most divers wouldn’t even consider going scuba diving without wearing a wetsuit no matter how warm the water is. But the neoprene used in today’s suits is far superior. Peeing when I enter the water would be a rather major issue considering that I’m a drysuit diver. You certainly don’t want to piss in your drysuit. Unlike a wetsuit, you actually can feel the pressure difference in a drysuit before you add any air to it. There’s no real significant pressure until you’re 8-10 feet under the water. Oddly enough, when wearing a drysuit, you can feel the pressure of the water squeezing your body. When in a wetsuit, you don’t feel that at all.

As far as being squeezed by the mud, really thick mud can actually cause too much pressure against your legs and over the course of a few hours, can actually cause damage to your veins. I would never suggest to anyone to stay down deep in really thick mud for very long. But I certainly enjoy the full body squeeze that we can get from going in a medium thickness of mud and doing a full submergence. I’m looking forward to doing that tomorrow afternoon while the mud is still cool, because that’s not going to be the case in about one more month. Then sinking season ends for us here in north Florida, as it gets to hot to safely go out playing out in the mud. Season opens back up again in September as it starts to cool down a bit.

BTW, NFL players all wear compression tights under their pants as part of their uniforms. They’re certainly not wearing them to control any swelling. They wear them for the performance gains, as those gains are very real. When I’m wearing compression at the gym, I can usually do one more set of 15 reps at maximum weight on at least one of the machines. Without them, I can’t. That’s because my muscles tire slightly quicker. And they retain more lactic acid instead of having it pushed back out. I’m a big fan of compression gear because I know it works. And it’s been a significant help for my back, as it helps to provide additional support. That’s important when I’m doing heavy lifting because of the injury there, as I can’t risk causing any additional injuries to my spine. Besides, the VA would probably get pretty pissed off considering the massive amount of money they’ve already spent putting me back together again already.