Censorship ...VERY unAmerican

[dlodoski]

When I first joined, I wondered why it took several days for my posts to appear. The posts are appearing much faster now. I now realize that if Dave and Fred are the only mods (right?) then they are extreme busy with all the production work they do. I frequently browse the producers area and I am impressed with all the work that producing QS Videos must involve.

At one time I wondered if the mods would eventually trust that the content that I provide would not need to be read first before being posted to the forum.

It would be nice if there was a point where some trusted members could avoid the delay in posting. This would allow some members to discuss things in almost real time like in other forums. This privilege could be revoked if that member blatantly violates a rule. The penalty could be several months of flawless adherence to the rules following a written mea culpa. The offending content would obviously be removed.

I have also sent PM's that were never responded to. I realize that the member may have blown me off, or just never checked their PM's, or do not have their profile configured to receive PM's. But it did make me wonder if the PM got dropped in the mod approval process.

That said, I do respect Dave and Fred. Thank you guys for posting Sinkman61's concerns about censorship. I find his input both interesting and valuable. He has shared a lot of very important information on sinking safety.

It is important to note that this forum has both fantasy sinkers and real sinkers. The QS Video Industry caters mainly to the fantasy sinker. Most members here realize (or should realize ) that the actresses in these videos are not in any serious risk of suffocation.

I am a real sinker. And I believe that a good number of members here are real sinkers. Real sinkers need real understanding of the risks they take and the skills they need to mitigate those risks.

I have been a boater/kayaker for many years. Drowning in water and drowning in mud share similar causes. I.e. entrapment. Ugly, scary word. I am sorry that you have to hear that word but it is a real danger that needs to be reckoned with.

I have heard quite a few boating horror stories. And I have experienced a few close calls myself. I have learned from each one of these. Many (all?) of these accidents/close calls could have prevented if people would have understood the risks (cause and effect) and how to interpret and mitigate them. Boaters share these stories freely. Some are probably urban legend but regardless, there is a clear message in each case, and only positive outcomes can result from sharing this information.

I believe that these actual drowning mishaps should not be censored simply because some of the fantasy sinkers need to have an unwitting victim for their enjoyment to work.

Maybe the Discussion area of the forum could be divided into Fantasy and Real. Maybe this would also help to reduce any potential liability assumed by the forum owners.

Thank you for listening Dave and Fred.

Thank you for your thoughtful post.

There are indeed a few members like yourself that should be considered for removal from the moderated group. I will look at that soon.

Each of the producers have moderating privileges in their respective forums. But only myself and two volunteer moderators handle the board at large.

As stated in the Board Rules, our moderating philosophy is reserved, but firm. Inherent in that though, is the zero tolerance for members using the board for their own amusement - particularly at the expense of others. It's a form of aggression. I let myself be aggressed on from time to time. But I will not tolerate abuse of regular members.

And finally, it's true that water and mud are hazardous mediums. I have extensive boating experience in a large variety of watercraft, and am always aware of how badly things can go out on the water. To suggest that I or others here flaunt safety issues here is ludicrous.

Like others have said, it's perfectly valid to discuss safety here without referencing specific tragedies. If anyone is unable to empathize with what it would be like for family members or friends to stumble across a discussion here of their loss, I don't have the time or ability to teach that.

[Fred588]

This is just to emphasize the third paragraph of Dave's reply. I am NOT a moderator in this forum except for my own producer's section.

[DJlurker]

I agree with Dave's second line, it might indeed be time to look at whether some members should be taken off probation...
Make no mistake, I deserved my probation after multiple warnings, and it was likely only my earnest acknowledgement to the mods that I mucked up big time that stopped me from getting banned outright. Like Duncan Edwards said, had it been up to him I would've been gone in a flash... Still, that was way back in 2017, and I like to think I've learned from my mistakes... But that's not up to me to decide.

[Sinkman61]

This post wasn’t expected to be approved and put up, as I’m not trying to start any controversy. But the example being used “yelling “FIRE” in a theater” is so far beyond absurd it’s just stupid. A. THIS ISN’T A THEATER. B. YOUR AUDIENCE ISN’T LOCATED IN THE SAME PLACE WHERE SOMEONE DOING SOMETHING DANGEROUS WOULD AFFECT OTHERS. Thus, saying that censorship in here doesn’t violate the Constitution is bizarre at best. It absolutely violates the intent of the Constitution. And I dare you to ask a lawyer and ask. I simply ask that censorship be stopped. Nothing more, nothing less. In the United States that shouldn’t be an issue. I’ve been to a country where censorship was alive and well (Saudi Arabia). What they do there is a travesty. But do as you want moderators. If not for my and a couple of others posting stuff, there’d be no conversations going on at all.

All the more reason to get that new laptop (besides some new YouTube videos I hope to make during Florida’s second 2019 sinking season. Speaking is sinking...has ANYBODY other than myself done any sinking this year that they could share with others? Or were those adventures that uneventful? I had an Estuary field officer come try to rescue me when I had one leg sunk down to my crotch (on the beach). I let him walk the hundred yards or so down the beach coming towards me, then, when he was only around 20 feet away, I pulled my leg out of the quicksand and walked over to the water to wash the mud off. He likewise, turned around, mumbled something (probably “I guess he doesn’t need my help,” and walked the hundred or more yards back up the beach to where he started from. Two days later I deliberately sank down to my nipples right smack in the middle of the beach just to see if any of the boaters would notice someone sinking in quicksand (in the middle of the beach) and come rescue me. Nobody even slowed down, although I did get a couple of people waving as they went by. They probably thought that 2 feet was just my normal height. Next time I’ll wait until there’s people actually ON THE BEACH. Maybe they’ll notice that one of these things is different from the others.

So in ending this, I’ll simply yell....”FIRE!!!”

[Sinkman61]

By the way, exactly WHO did I slander or harass? I’ve NEVER, EVER SLANDERED OR HARASSED ANYONE AT ANYTIME IN HERE. EVER. BUT...I’ve been accused of being a TROLL. TROLLS DON’T POST THEIR PHONE NUMBER on message boards. I, however, have...at least TWICE now. In all fairness, I too would block postings that were deliberate attacks on others if those attacks were substantiated. But I haven’t seen any attacks on anyone in here. Disagreements aren’t attacks. They’re merely disagreements, nothing more. Imagine a world where everyone agreed with everyone else on everything. WHAT A DULL, BORING PLACE THAT WOULD BE!!! Everyone would just be sitting around nodding their heads and saying “YUP, I AGREE.”, followed by “YUP, YOU’RE RIGHT, ME TOO! What about you Billy-Bob Bumpelswitchelsticks?” And Billy-Bob Bumpelswitchelsticks would respond by saying “YUUUP!!!”

What a wonderful world it would be. How about it Bumbelswitchelsticks?





‘YUUUP’

[Fred588]

By the way, exactly WHO did I slander or harass? I’ve NEVER, EVER SLANDERED OR HARASSED ANYONE AT ANYTIME IN HERE. EVER. BUT...I’ve been accused of being a TROLL. TROLLS DON’T POST THEIR PHONE NUMBER on message boards. I, however, have...at least TWICE now. In all fairness, I too would block postings that were deliberate attacks on others if those attacks were substantiated. But I haven’t seen any attacks on anyone in here. Disagreements aren’t attacks. They’re merely disagreements, nothing more. Imagine a world where everyone agreed with everyone else on everything. WHAT A DULL, BORING PLACE THAT WOULD BE!!! Everyone would just be sitting around nodding their heads and saying “YUP, I AGREE.”, followed by “YUP, YOU’RE RIGHT, ME TOO! What about you Billy-Bob Bumpelswitchelsticks?” And Billy-Bob Bumpelswitchelsticks would respond by saying “YUUUP!!!”

What a wonderful world it would be. How about it Bumbelswitchelsticks?

Your statement that you did not attack anyone is incorrect. You did. I believe it has been taken down, although the evidence was retained.

[Duncan Edwards]

Thus, saying that censorship in here doesn’t violate the Constitution is bizarre at best. It absolutely violates the intent of the Constitution. And I dare you to ask a lawyer and ask. ...

So in ending this, I’ll simply yell....”FIRE!!!”

Actually, nine very prominent jurists of the United States Supreme Court ruled on that 100 years ago. Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes famously cited that example in Schenk vs The United States. If you want to talk about the spirit of something I'd say you had pretty well violated that with your very familiar semi-psychotic rant that has nothing to do with what QSF is for. Your assertion that nobody would be discussing anything if not for you is like saying there's nothing to do at the zoo if the monkeys aren't flinging excrement all over the place.

I'd like to put it to the overly patient and permissive moderators to throw away the key on this personality so we can return to what we come here for. He will disappear and return again soon in the guise of one friendly and then grow increasingly disturbed as he has since I was a moderator.

[Fred588]

Thus, saying that censorship in here doesn’t violate the Constitution is bizarre at best. It absolutely violates the intent of the Constitution. And I dare you to ask a lawyer and ask. ...

So in ending this, I’ll simply yell....”FIRE!!!”

Actually, nine very prominent jurists of the United States Supreme Court ruled on that 100 years ago. Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes famously cited that example in Schenk vs The United States. If you want to talk about the spirit of something I'd say you had pretty well violated that with your very familiar semi-psychotic rant that has nothing to do with what QSF is for. Your assertion that nobody would be discussing anything if not for you is like saying there's nothing to do at the zoo if the monkeys aren't flinging excrement all over the place.

I'd like to put it to the overly patient and permissive moderators to throw away the key on this personality so we can return to what we come here for. He will disappear and return again soon in the guise of one friendly and then grow increasingly disturbed as he has since I was a moderator.

This sort of thing kinda corresponds to what migh be called "Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result."

[Sinkman61]

I seriously think something is mentally wrong with you. Just how in the hell can you possibly draw any type of comparison between someone screaming “fire” in a crowded movie theater and someone saying something in a chat room. In someone says “FIRE” in a chat room, do you actually see the threat of people getting trampled around you? How can you possibly think that it’s even remotely the same. You just can’t possibly be that damned stupid. It’s impossible. NOBODY CAN BE THAT STUPID AND STILL BE ABLE TO FUNCTION IN ANY SOCIETY. The Supreme Court made no such ruling that would apply to THIS CONTEXT. You seem to think that it’s okay to take things out of the context in which they were meant. If I’m playing war games, which I often did as a service member, it was common for me to say “I have a bomb!!!” Saying that isn’t illegal. However, if I say the same exact thing at 35,000 feet up in a crowded 747, THAT’S ILLEGAL. It’s illegal because of the context in which it’s said. You’re trying to shove a line of crap down our throats and claim that one totally justifies another. Do you think we’re all that stupid that we can’t figure out the context of each? Speech that has been deemed by the Supreme Court to be illegal is based wholeheartedly on the CONTEXT in which that speech is used, NOT THE SPEECH ITSELF. When you tell people in here that they need approval to have their comments posted, you are censoring free speech. And to justify this, you compared it to yelling fire in a movie theater. This isn’t a crowded movie theater. Nobody ever suggested that yelling “FIRE” in such a place is “justified free speech” because the Constitution gives us the right to free speech. Yelling Fire in such a place is illegal because of the immediate threat to bodily harm that would incur in THAT CONTEXT. No such threat exist in this message board. I’m not surrounded by hundreds of other people that would be in immediate danger. THAT’S WHAT THE SUPREME COURT RULED ON. Not saying something in a post. Why don’t you talk to a lawyer about how context is EVERYTHING when it comes to what’s acceptable and what’s NOT with free speech. Censorship is actually ILLEGAL within the confines of the United States. Saying that it’s illeg to yell FIRE in a crowded movie theater is NOT CENSORSHIP. Nor is saying it’s illegal to scream out BOMB on a crowded plane. However, telling people what they can or cannot post and then making people get approval to put up a post by having a moderator screen such post IS CENSORSHIP. There’s no danger of bodily harm to anyone. No group is going to suddenly be attacked. Least of all from me. Hell, I like everyone (well, almost...) there’s still that Trump thing going on, but we won’t go there).

And no, I don’t actually think that you’re that stupid. I think you’re just trying to win an argument by any way you can. Sorry, but censorship is VERY UNAMERICAN, and it’s UNCONSTITUTIONAL. Context must be taken into consideration before free speech can ever be deemed illegal. Had you read the entire briefing by the Supreme Court from all 9 judges, they brought that very thing up MULTIPLE TIMES. In their conclusion, they didn’t deem the words to be illegal. They deemed the CONTEXT in which that were used to be illegal. Thus, although the context was illegal, there wasn’t any censorship. I’m beating a dead horse.

But...
Seriously, you’ve got to be smarter than a 5th grader.

[Sinkman61]

Dave...

Seriously, nobody, including myself, has any desire to harass you or ANY BOARD MEMBER. I’ve certainly got better things to do with my time. If I’m going to harass someone, it’ll be someone local that actually has pissed me off. Ironically, nobody’s done that in a LONG, LONG TIME. I simply have other things I’d rather be doing. Like sleeping. Or scuba diving. Or mountain bike riding. Or jet skiing. Or jet skiing to a great mud bank where I can jump into the mud. And then rescuing myself BEFORE the tide comes in. Or trying to get back out of the mud fast enough so I can go swim after my jet ski because I forgot to set the anchor (thankfully, you only do that once), or like having a park warden walk 100 yards to rescue you because he thinks that your leg is stuck in the mud only to pop it back out just seconds before he gets to you. Yup, there’s plenty of things to do around here that don’t require harassing anyone. Especially people in here.