Cruise Ship Grounding

[kham]

Been watching this colossal balls-up the last few days, and all I can say is it's going to be an interesting report when they get around to publishing it.

Daily Mail article here

The wonder is that something like this hasn't happened on the high seas; not necessarily grounding, but a fire or major collision, etc. Folks already have asked me the usual "how is this possible today ,with gps, radar, etc etc"
The simple answer is that the human stupidity factor can never be engineered out of any system. This, will almost certainly go down to someone improperly using a piece of gear, or inept piloting, or just gross negligence. I might be wrong, but the stories coming out? Not getting that vibe....

Worse, we have stories (and more than one telling same tale, so very unlikely made up) of the crew abandoning first, no one obeying what orders were given, and similar chaos. That too is simple. Today, the bulk of the 'crew' is actually the staff operating the hotel. The actual deck and engineering departments are reduced to bare minimum, and not exactly composed of crack seamen. Throw in no real leadership, and you have a situation where it's a sheer miracle that casualties were very low. I know women and children first has gone out of vogue these days, but there was a reason once they issued us sidearms - and it wasn't to look cool...
Ay yi yi

[Duncan Edwards]

There's no way that a nearly new ship of that size, in calm seas, with no major problems occurring, can have that happen without somebody seriously having their head up their ass. All of the ships officers were Italian so you want me to believe that they all of a sudden forgot where Italy was and how to miss it? It sure didn't take long for the cruise company to throw the Captain under the bus. From the discussion that keeps coming out it sounds like leadership failed even after the grounding. Most of the "crew" that did anything were the cooks, waiters, cleaners, etc. I guess the "sailors" should have been given better examples than the Andrea Doria and others to follow.

[kham]

I would be interested in seeing the ECDIS track and engine room logs, and statements from the OOW and bridge team. The bridge itself is above water so getting to the computers is easy enough, just the obvious unusual attitude to deal with.

The Doria-Stockholm collision is still used in classrooms to this day, as an example of how the error chain works. It is also interesting to note that the crew of the Doria also were in the first lifeboats, and in their case, got beaten up when they arrived at the Stockholm, who's crew were expecting passengers...

[kham]

Interesting observation by Bob Krumm

edit:
The more I research, the worse this is looking

The Stupid shall be Punished have some interesting links and info....
So, he thought it would be kewl to drive a half-billion dollar liner with over 4,000 on board close inshore so he could blow the whistle for a goddamned waiter???
Beat him until he begs to die

Oh, and she's already been written off as a total constructive loss. That's going to be an interesting board meeting upcoming...

[bart1997]

..

[kham]

Yeah, I read that; I dismissed at first, as bad translation or total bullshit. OTOH, with some of the stuff being reported, I not so sure...

One thing though, if that was an accurate representation of the Italian Coast Guard, they should be up for a knee in the balls as well -- you DO NOT threaten someone, in any manner on an open channel. You shouldn't do it at all, but on an open frequency? Retarded doesn't come close to describing. If some CCG douchenozzle had said that to me on the air, I suspect my reply would be in violation of several DOT and FCC regulations. But then, I wouldn't be watching my ship roll over with all the passengers aboard either.

Too many mariners now with no interest in their profession or the history of sailing, both merchant, and naval
They should look up "Don't give up the ship" and perhaps do some learnin'

[Green Heart]

This reminds me of that one Cruise ship Incident almost a decade ago where the Captain abandoned the ship and left the Staff and crew to fend for themselves, when something went wrong.

[DangerGirl]

This incident reminds me of the B-52 crash at Fairchild AFB, where a long-time rogue pilot evaluator was never punished for his history of hot-dogging, and ended up taking the Vice Wing Commander, a squadron commander, and a radar navigator with him. The people who did bring up his recklessness were poo-pooed by the wing leadership, who saw the behavior as just "Bud Holland being Bud Holland." The squadron commander who died on the airplane with him, Lt Col Mark McGeehan, was so concerned about Holland's lack of discipline that he told his squadron's aircrew members that no one would have to fly with Holland unless McGeehan was on the aircraft, as well. Sadly, his presence in the copilot seat didn't prevent the accident.

A video of Lt Col Bud Hollands "greatest hits" can be viewed here. The mishap is at the very end; if you can't wait, there's a link to a video of the last few seconds on the right side of the page. But look at and 4:40 and 8:08 on the video linked to above to see some really hair-raising crap. You can't really tell because of the quality of the video, but he clears that ridge by 6-10 feet.

Apparently, ship captains aren't immune to the same temptation to show off.

[Lomax]

I happen to belong to a band which, three or four times a year, gets a gig "playing off" cruises from Southampton - so I get to see these ships pretty close up. And they all look damned unstable to me. Why they don't just roll over as soon as they set sail, I can't work out (well, intellectually I know they concentrate a LOT of weight in the keel - but the eye keeps insisting that they're as top-heavy as hell).

As for the chaos - half an hour before sailing, there is a lengthy safety announcement. We have to stop playing so the passengers can all hear. Except that NONE OF THEM LISTEN.

[kham]

Liners have been top heavy since before the Olympic-class were a hot item. It's not new. They have good stability for what they do, just not as good as other designs of ships. You want to talk dangerous stability in a mishap, RO-RO's are the worst. Flood the vehicle deck with a couple inches of water, and you have a giant rolling log.

Shipboard safety is all about personal responsibility; it's not like they all strapped in and facing the forward cabin. Professionals at least are required to have taken MED courses, even if they out of practice, its still like basic training -- you retain the skills (or should) Passengers, sadly, are a semi-intelligent cargo which more often than not ignores instructions, never mind orders.
That's where the crew is supposed to provide leadership
When that doesn't happen, it's all downhill from there