Jerry Sandusky verdict: Guilty!

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Robert
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Re: Jerry Sandusky verdict: Guilty!

Postby Robert » Thu Jul 05, 2012 9:32 pm

benmetal wrote:
Robert wrote:In case you were not aware of it, the cost to execute someone far exceeds the cost for them to serve a life sentence.


The fuck? How?


Here's the fuck how:

Richard C. Dieter, MS, JD, Executive Director of the Death Penalty Information Center, said the following on June 7, 2010, in his testimony before the Pennsylvania Senate Government Management and Cost Study Commission, available at www.deathpenaltyinfo.org:

"The death penalty is the most expensive part of the system on a per-offender basis. Millions are spent to achieve a single death sentence that, even if imposed, is unlikely to be carried out. Thus money that the police desperately need for more effective law enforcement may be wasted on the death penalty…

The principal reason why the death penalty is so expensive can be summed up in one phrase: ‘death is different…' Every stage of a capital case is more time-consuming and expensive than in a typical criminal case. Jury selection takes much longer; more mental health and forensic experts will be needed; two trials will be required - one for guilt and one for sentencing; and the appeals will be far more complex, focusing on both the conviction and the death sentence. Two attorneys are usually appointed for the defense, so that issues of guilt and sentencing can be separately explored. The prosecution has to respond with equal or greater resources since they have the burden of proof...There is no reason the death penalty should be immune from reconsideration, along with other wasteful, expensive programs that no longer make sense."

June 7, 2010 - Richard C. Dieter, MS, JD

Death Penalty Focus, an anti-capital punishment advocacy organization, wrote in the article "The High Cost of the Death Penalty," available at www.deathpenalty.org (accessed Aug. 15, 2011):

"The death penalty is much more expensive than life without parole because the Constitution requires a long and complex judicial process for capital cases. This process is needed in order to ensure that innnocent men and woman are not executed for crimes they did not commit, and even with these protections the risk of executing an innocent person can not be completely eliminated.

If the death penalty was replaced with a sentence of Life Without the Possibility of Parole, which costs millions less and also ensures that the public is protected while eliminating the risk of an irreversible mistake, the money saved could be spent on programs that actually improve the communities in which we live... More than 3500 men and woman have received this sentence in California since 1978 and NOT ONE has been released, except those few individuals who were able to prove their innocence."

Aug. 15, 2011 - Death Penalty Focus

John Roman, PhD, Senior Fellow at the Urban Institute and Executive Director of the District of Columbia Crime Policy Institute, et al., wrote the following in their Dec. 15, 2009 study “Reassessing the Cost of the Death Penalty Using Quasi-Experimental Methods: Evidence from Maryland,” published in American Law and Economics Association:

"Fourteen studies have estimated the costs of capital punishment, including one study of the federal death penalty and 13 state- or county-level studies. Each study concludes that the presence of capital punishment results in additional costs. However, there is substantial variation in the cost estimates. Among the five studies that compare the cost of a death sentence with the cost of a capital-eligible case in which no death notice is filed, the average (additional) cost per case is $650,000, but the estimates range from about $100,000 to more than $1.7 million…

Cases receiving a death notice are approximately $517,000 more costly during the trial phase, $147,000 more costly during the penalty phase, and $201,000 more costly during the appellate phase than a capital eligible case where no death notice was filed…. On average, a death notice adds about $1,000,000 in costs over the duration of a case.”

Dec. 15, 2009 - John Roman, PhD

Eight members of the 23-member California Commission on the Fair Administration of Justice study titled "Report and Recommendations on the Administration of the Death Penalty in California," signed a June 30, 2008 supplement indicating their personal objections to the death penalty. Those eight members were Diane Bellas, JD, Alameda County Public Defender; Rabbi Allen I. Freehling, Executive Director at the City of Los Angeles Human Relations Commission; Michael Hersek, JD, California State Public Defender; Bill Ong Hing, JD Professor at UC Davis School of Law; Michael P. Judge, JD, Los Angeles County Public Defender; Michael Laurence, JD, Executive Director of the Habeas Corpus Resource Center; John Moulds, JD, US Magistrate Judge of the US District Court – Eastern District of California; and Douglas Ring, Businessman Founder of The Ring Group. The supplement stated in part:

"The resources that go into a death penalty case are enormous. The pursuit of execution adds millions at each phase of the process, from trial, to appeal, and habeas proceedings. For example, a death penalty trial costs counties at least $1.1 million more than a conventional murder trial. The state spends at least an additional $117 million a year on capital punishment, about half of it on prison expenses that exceed the usual costs of housing inmates and the rest on arguing and judging death penalty appeals.

The costs mount because death penalty trials and appeals take far longer than others, involve more lawyers, investigators and expert witnesses, and displace other cases from courtrooms. In contrast, adopting a maximum penalty of life without possibility of parole (for which there is growing sentiment) would incur only a fraction of the death penalty costs, including prison expenses."

June 30, 2008 - Supplement to the California Commission on the Fair Administration of Justice (1,120KB)

The Washington State Bar Association (WSBA), adopted the Apr. 13, 2007 "Final Report of the Death Penalty Subcommittee of the Committee on Public Defense," which stated:

"It costs significantly more to try a capital case to final verdict than to try the same case as an aggravated murder case where the penalty sought is life without possibility of parole.

At the trial level, death penalty cases are estimated to generate roughly $470,000 in additional costs to the prosecution and defense over the cost of trying the same case as an aggravated murder without the death penalty and costs of $47,000 to $70,000 for court personnel.

On direct appeal, the cost of appellate defense averages $100,000 more in death penalty cases, than in non-death penalty murder cases.

Personal restraint petitions filed in death penalty cases on average cost an additional $137,000 in public defense costs.

On direct appeals and personal restraint petitions, the prosecutor spends significant attorney time responding to the issues raised by the defendant to the Washington Supreme Court. If a death penalty defendant does not succeed before the Washington State Supreme Court, additional defense costs will be incurred in a habeas corpus petition to the federal court and appeals to the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeal and the U.S. Supreme Court. The Washington State Attorney General must provide attorneys to defend the death penalty sentence before the federal courts."

Apr. 13, 2007 - Washington State Bar Association (WSBA)

The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU), in a 2002 presentation from its Capital Punishment Project titled "The High Costs of the Death Penalty," concluded:

"The available evidence is clear: the death penalty costs more than life imprisonment without the possibility of parole. At every step in the process, a capital defendant receives greater constitutional guarantees than non-capital defendants, which costs time and resources. As a result, total costs for each capital case run into the millions of dollars.

While it is the politicians and legislators who often support the death penalty, local counties and communities must bear the financial burden of imposing a capital punishment system, often to the detriment of other health and social services.

With life imprisonment available at a much cheaper, fairer, and more humane form of punishment, the high costs of the death penalty, and their burdens on local governments, simply are not worth whatever benefits may be claimed for it."

2002 - American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU)

Philip J. Cook, PhD, Professor of Public Policy at Duke University, wrote the following in the Dec. 11, 2009 study “Potential Savings from Abolition of the Death Penalty in North Carolina,” published in American Law and Economics Review:

"If the death penalty had been abolished on July 1, 2004, state government expenditures for processing murder cases would have fallen by $10.8 million per year... The bottom line is that the death penalty is a financial burden on the state and a resource-absorbing burden on the trial courts.”

Dec. 11, 2009 - Phillip J. Cook, PhD

Arthur L. Alarcon, LLB, Senior Judge for the US Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit, and Paula M. Mitchell, JD, Adjunct Professor of Law at Loyola Law School, wrote the following in the June 2011 article “Executing the Will of the Voters?: A Roadmap to Mend or End the California Legislature’s Multi-Billion-Dollar Death Penalty Debacle,” published in Loyola of Los Angeles Law Review:

"Our research has revealed that $4 billion of state and federal taxpayer money has been expended administering the death penalty in California since 1978, with a cost in 2009 of approximately $184 million above what taxpayers would have spent without the death penalty… These totals do not include the additional funds the state is poised to spend to maintain the current broken system...

In cases in which a defendant faces a maximum penalty of life without the possibility of parole, rather than the death penalty, there is no penalty phase trial at all. Thus, the government would not incur these costly expenditures if the death penalty were abolished…

The costs associated with death penalty trials that took place between 1983 and 2006 averaged about $1 million more per trial than the costs of average non–death penalty homicide trials. This conclusion is also supported by the fact that there are several significant, easily identifiable costs incurred in every death penalty trial that are not incurred in non–death penalty homicide.”

June 2011 - Arthur L. Alarcon, LLB
Paula M. Mitchell, JD

bbjohn
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Re: Jerry Sandusky verdict: Guilty!

Postby bbjohn » Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:30 am

I understand perfectly why some people would like to see Mr. Sandusky pay for his crimes with his life. The desire to meet out personal justice can be very strong, particularly with heinous crimes like this.

This is the time to remember why we have a criminal justice system like we do. Our system is designed to look at all cases fairly and honestly without emotional knee-jerk reactions (at least that's how it's supposed to work). The system recognizes the desire for revenge can and does create evils of its own. The system was set up to ensure that persons accused of crimes have a fair chance.

Some of you may be thinking, "Well, the criminals didn't give their victims a fair chance!" That's true, and that's exactly the point. As a society, we have decided we will not lower ourselves to the level of criminals. We're better than they are.

As someone who has covered the courts, I can tell you most criminal defendants are, in fact, guilty. Far more often than not, they recognize that fact and are willing to accept plea agreements. If they know they're going to be convicted if they go to trial, they'll take a 15-year sentence over a 30-year one.

As for the death penalty being a deterrent, I'll bet the possibility of getting caught is the last thing on the minds of murderers when they commit their crimes.

A friend of mine described our judicial system as the difference between a democracy and a republic. He used the example of a town in the Old West where someone is accused of being a horse thief. The crowd is ready to string him up. That's a democracy where the majority rules.

The sheriff rides up and tells the crowd they can't do that. The man has to be put on trial, and, if convicted, sent to prison. That's the republic, where the majority usually rules, but the rule of law trumps the will of the majority.

Mr. Sandusky will likely spend the rest of his life in 4-foot by 8-foot cell. The only opening will be a slot in the door. He'll likely never see sunshine, and he may be let out for an hour each day to exercise and take a shower. He'll have plenty of time to think about what he's done.

If that's what the law says he should get, that's good enough for me.

Big Bad John

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Nessie
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Re: Jerry Sandusky verdict: Guilty!

Postby Nessie » Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:16 am

bbjohn wrote:As someone who has covered the courts, I can tell you most criminal defendants are, in fact, guilty. Far more often than not, they recognize that fact and are willing to accept plea agreements. If they know they're going to be convicted if they go to trial, they'll take a 15-year sentence over a 30-year one.


I believe you. I've seen how it goes.I served on jury duty almost a year ago now.

I spent a whole day hanging out in the jury room, waiting to be called up. They had a computer without the Internet so I practiced Excel spreadsheets.

I ate lunch. I watched the Occupy protesters outside as I nibbled on food, walking around the building for exercise. The seagulls landed and with their beady little eyes, they begged everybody for just one bite.

Somebody had snarfed the only computer while I was out. But I had my art supplies with me and drew nature pictures after lunch.

I went home. I went back to the same room the next day and it started it all over again.

Halfway through the second day, the judge called some jurors and one of them was finally, at long last, me.

I went up an elevator to where the courtrooms were. Me and the other jurors hung out in the hallway for over an hour. There was nothing much to do but sit on the floor (no chairs or anything) and go to the bathroom.

Then, finally, we were told to go into the courtroom. We sat on the benches and the judge came in.

He said something that went like this:

"I am sorry to tell you that there is no trial after all. At the very very very LAST second of the final minute, the defendant's lawyer accepted some kind of deal. I deeply regret that you have spent all this time hanging out doing absolutely nothing and now you won't even get to go in there and listen to the case. It's disappointing, but thank you very much for doing your part anyway and rest assured that what you did here, while it may seem boring, was of value."

Translation:

If we'd have heard the evidence, somebody's butt would have been nailed to the wall.

I've been told this happens a lot.

Nessie

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BSink42
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Re: Jerry Sandusky verdict: Guilty!

Postby BSink42 » Thu Jul 12, 2012 12:34 pm

http://openchannel.msnbc.msn.com/_news/ ... abuse?lite

The icing on a throughly disgusting cake.

newtothis2
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Re: Jerry Sandusky verdict: Guilty!

Postby newtothis2 » Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:42 pm

I've been back and forth on the whole death penalty thing all my life and as I see it, the "pro" death penalty folks will argue to the end that it's a deterent. If that's the case why are criminals like Sandusky out there doing what they do, and he's just the tip of the iceberg. It's hard to imagine more heinous acts and criminals perpatrating them but I'm pretty sure it happens on a daily basis the death penalty.

I also never thought about it until Robert mentioned it, but the whole appeals process IS an exhaustive drain on resources better spent somewhere else in the criminal justice system. Do I like the fact that he gets to be separated from the general population, with amenities that hard working people on the outside will never have, NOOOOO, it sucks. But as somebody else pointed out in this thread, I don't think he's going to be having much of a picnic in there either.


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