Death and sinking in quicksand - a question?

[tanya_wam]

Hello,

I received a private message where it was suggested if my stories had ended with my character dying by going under in quicksand, they might have been hotter?

I'm not out looking to embarrass the person but was curious, as my own inclination (and personal from a writing point of view) is that people, especially women, don't really want to die (in quicksand, but also in general) just because they're getting off on the idea?

That's why some of the few other stories I've read, where a woman suddenly goes from erotically aroused to suicidal, I find, well.. silly or just plain stupid?

Is dying in quicksand as a choice, as opposed to the person being hopelessly stuck and going under because they're being 'sucked down' or similar, a sort of sub-genre within this genre of quicksand fiction? What exactly is the appeal there? And before I'm dubbed someone naive with little knowledge of such things, I had been hooked up once with a guy heavily into throttling and breathplay, and I suppose that might be closest in 'near death', though the idea isn't to actually die...

[DJlurker]

Well, I know that in quite a few stories I've read, the woman who sinks isn't exactly *desiring* death, but then they get sunk too deep and their fate is sealed, so they just decide to enjoy what time they have left, and drown with a smile on their faces.

Honestly, though, I'd prefer the woman sinking to live another day, even if they fully submerge... which is probably why I liked PM2K's story 'Nikki' so much.

[tanya_wam]

Well, I know that in quite a few stories I've read, the woman who sinks isn't exactly *desiring* death, but then they get sunk too deep and their fate is sealed, so they just decide to enjoy what time they have left, and drown with a smile on their faces.

Oh I see, yes that makes more context in the sense of the message, though not (to me) for real...

[Nessie]

This is a very natural question for someone who doesn't know us well and it deserves an answer. From the forum guidelines:

8. This is a fetish site dealing with serious fantasy themes. However, discussion or depiction of actual mortality is considered inappropriate and will not be tolerated.


So, let's immediately limit the discussion to serious fantasy themes. Stories, pictures, video, good. Actual death, bad.

I received a private message where it was suggested if my stories had ended with my character dying by going under in quicksand, they might have been hotter?

I'm not out looking to embarrass the person

I don't really mind because we don't know who it is anyway, and this isn't constructive criticism. He just wants you to do your writing his way and not yours. It's exactly the same as the fellow who once wrote to me to suggest that one of my videos would have been "ever so much better if only you had been wearing boots".

I always just ignored this stuff and you may feel free to do the same.

That's why some of the few other stories I've read, where a woman suddenly goes from erotically aroused to suicidal, I find, well.. silly or just plain stupid?

You're not wrong. This stuff doesn't make for a real story, because the behavior depicted doesn't make sense. You see these writings here anyway because this happens to be what turns on the writer. It's almost like we need a sub-genre of writing called "dreamlike fantasy vignettes of quicksand freed from all constrictions of plot and character that will show the world what turns me on the most"...with a shorter name than that if anyone can think of it. I've always felt these "stories" should be welcomed here even though they're not literary works, because we're here to share our fetishes, not be literary critics, but, yes, you're right, a lot of stuff you see here is baffling.

Is dying in quicksand as a choice, as opposed to the person being hopelessly stuck and going under because they're being 'sucked down' or similar, a sort of sub-genre within this genre of quicksand fiction? What exactly is the appeal there? And before I'm dubbed someone naive with little knowledge of such things, I had been hooked up once with a guy heavily into throttling and breathplay, and I suppose that might be closest in 'near death', though the idea isn't to actually die...

Well, yes...for some people, the idea that "this is so very exciting, arousing, and mind-blowingly wonderful that I'm going to let it kill me and enjoy the final, ultimate experience" is a real fantasy, and accounts for what you're reading. Quicksand can be a lot of things a lot of different people. It contains elements of other fetishes. To go under and not get out would be to drown (breathplay and asphyxiation), to be unable to escape resembles bondage, and to be covered all over could be mummification. Feeling of helplessness may equal submission (with the quicksand as the dom). So, for some folks, it seems that a lot of fetishes intermingle and bounce off each other and morph into each other and at times, the death/orgasm become one.

I guess I don't get involved in any of that, though. I'm a one-fetish gal and also, I am at a such a comfortable stage where all I need to know is that when I see the girl go under, it's just a video. Godzilla never trashed Tokyo either. So I will leave the question of "why fantasize about that?" to others. I just wanted to be sure we stayed in the forum guidelines from the start.

Nessie

[Fred588]

It is my viewpoint that there are two (at least) quicksand metaphors that get mixed up with each other. One metaphor is quicksand as the worst possible death. This is what we see frequently (or used to) in jungle movies where it is the bad guy who ends up going under. Its the worst possible death because the bad guy goes into the grave while still alive and usually conscious. This, by the way is not original to me as an idea - I read it is an essay somewhere. The other metaphor is quicksand as sex. Being in the mud, the sensuousness of the mud, etc represent foreplay and the submergence represents the "little death" of sexual climax and the loss of innocence. When these ideas get mixed then it might be the character's death combined with the viewer's concept of sexual climax that makes the fatal scene erotic. I know, its complicated.

suppose there may be other metaphors involved as well, such as sinking as the ultimate non-compliance with superior authority "don't play in the mud!" or perhaps the adolescent breaking free of that authority. Yep, even more complicated.

[nachtjaeger]

"Sex and death- like peanut butter and chocolate." This is a common theme, from Shakespeare's "little death of flesh-to-flesh" to The Pretty Reckless' song "Follow me down":

"When you're young, you always take what you can get
even bicycles and sprinklers get you wet
Now I know that there's a different way to die
my body breathes
heart still beats
but I am not alive. . ."

To build on Fred588's comments a bit, when it comes to the female character playing in the mud, there is (at least to me) a strong "Good girls don't" component. Good girls don't disobey. Good girls don't get their clothes messy. Good girls don't take sensual pleasure from anything. Good girls definitely don't touch themselves, etc. I seriously doubt that I'm the only one acculturated with "the wages of sin is death" and that sort of Western European guilt trip. So when the female character, who has been REALLY enjoying the forbidden pleasure of a mud pit, suddenly realizes that she's stuck and there's no bottom, it can sort of be seen as a just punishment. This seems to be a fairly common theme in QS videos.

Honestly, it took me a long time before I could enjoy a grim ending in a QS scene, even knowing that "She's a professional model, and the cameraman is there to rescue her." (Honestly, you have to tell people this on YouTube comment threads.) A scene like Brittany in "Knife Girl", where the victim is obviously well deserving of a horrible death, are more to my liking than an innocent victim.

[Nessie]

A scene like Brittany in "Knife Girl", where the victim is obviously well deserving of a horrible death, are more to my liking than an innocent victim.

You're right. I am currently trying to translate one of my old quicksand stories into Spanish.

She's headed for a full submersion, but she is a despicable lying sack of you-know-what. It's hard to feel bad about this.

Nessie

[tanya_wam]

Sorry, as with the inadvertent posting of a link to a video on YouTube about a quicksand prop that featured children, I wasn't looking to stir up trouble, and I certainly didn't see the message as overly critical. It was just something that piqued my curiosity (especially as a pending story might actually feature someone dying in a bog) and don't a number of videos produced by quite respected members end in submergences that imply the character has met her end in quicksand? (Of course, we all know they haven't and yes, seeing them go right under is probably quite exciting on some level )

I was just curious as to this part of the quicksand interest as some stories had featured it, I wasn't accusing the person of being overly morbid as I had already read stories that had featured women 'dying a pleasurable death' in quicksand, and i don't think those stories were ever received badly.

Should I request this thread be locked to avoid further misunderstandings?

[Nessie]

Should I request this thread be locked to avoid further misunderstandings?

I don't think we're anywhere near that yet. The question you had comes up now and then no matter what because it is natural for people to ask. Serious fantasy themes are fair game.

Nessie

[Allusion Namiboo]

I'm just kinda turned off by the "death" concept because the physics behind it just don't add up. Mud is denser than your body, so it's harder to get much more than shoulder deep.

You gotta be weighed down by something else denser than you to not have a hound's chance in hell of resurfacing.

But eh, that's just me.